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How to deal with extreme physical pain

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Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#171

Post by wutbrodo »

banana_giraffe wrote: post #12

I have a chronic condition that causes pain. One of the things I've learned, in as much as I can, is I don't tell anyone. I'd rather be rude than explain I'm in pain. Not because I don't appreciate sympathy. Not because I'm ashamed. It's because I don't want your advice on how to make the pain go away or to deal with it. I'm tired of advice. I've got too much advice. I try things, I research issues. I talk to doctors…

Oh man, this was the case for my (former) sleep disorder. I appreciate the suggestions, but trust me, if you'd heard of it, it's something I'd tried a few years ago.

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#172

Post by eslaught »

banana_giraffe wrote: post #12

I have a chronic condition that causes pain. One of the things I've learned, in as much as I can, is I don't tell anyone. I'd rather be rude than explain I'm in pain. Not because I don't appreciate sympathy. Not because I'm ashamed. It's because I don't want your advice on how to make the pain go away or to deal with it. I'm tired of advice. I've got too much advice. I try things, I research issues. I talk to doctors…

I was rereading The Lord of the Rings a while back and one of the things that struck me was how seriously the characters take the giving of advice. In retrospect I think this is one of the biggest blind spots of American culture in general. We act like advice is cheap or even free, both in the giving and in receiving. It's not. Even when solicited. I think we'd all be healthier if we were slower to give advice, even outside of such extreme circumstances.

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#173

Post by wutbrodo »

uprighten wrote: post #66
centimeter wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your diet plan allows beer it’s probably not very effective. Doctors aren’t going to be very helpful here - 95% are incompetent. You should probably try to come up with a good and efficiently computable a priori dietary strategy (e.g. evolutionary ancestral diet, with the goal of minimizing the chance of running into defective metabolic pathways). I can’t think of any such strategies I’m aware of that would allow…

I'm not sure about 95% of doctors being incompetent. If nothing else they are much better trained than the average person offering advice.

I wouldn't go as far as the comment you're referencing, but the bar for incompetence at _human medicine_ should be infinitely higher than "the average person".

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#174

Post by wutbrodo »

nmfisher wrote: post #168
uprighten wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about 95% of doctors being incompetent. If nothing else they are much better trained than the average person offering advice.

I wouldn't say most doctors are incompetent, but I would say that most are automatons working to a checklist which probably hasn't been updated since they left school. Patient reports symptoms A, B, C? Order tests X, Y, Z, prescribe drugs 1, 2 and 3. Now that's probably appropriate for (say) 70% of patients. But what about the other 30% of patients whose symptoms or conditions don't fit squarely in the checklist? Tha…

Great comment, sums up exactly what the issue is without resorting to shortcuts like "incompetent" that are more likely to offend than convince (something I've certainly been guilty of in the past). At this point, for mild to moderate healthcare-system interactions, I go to doctor's appt with a pretty accurate sense of what prescription and/or advice I'm leaving with. I basically consider it a fee I need to pay in order to get the legally-required prescription or referral I already know I need.

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#176

Post by wutbrodo »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #151
darkerside wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so you know, you're effectively complaining that people care about you too much. People can't put themselves in your shoes, but they try, and when they see you having a beer, knowing it could be bad for you, they try to support you in keeping away from it. I can see how it would get annoying. If you view it as love, instead of nagging, it might get a little less annoying.

It's virtue signaling, not caring. It's pretending to care and expecting to get pats on the head for it while actually being a burden to someone whose life is already overburdened. It's the opposite of actually caring about a person. It's caring about them making you feel good about going through superficial "caring" motions while doing absolutely no good and lots of terrible harm when it is added up over time for th…

> If people care, they do what actually helps you rather than insisting you make them feel good for superficial bullshit that only adds to your suffering.

This is a very simplistic way to look at people. A lot of people are misinformed or not thoughtful or don't fully understand your experience or frankly not that bright. The idea that people who genuinely care never do any damage is beyond ludicrous.

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#177

Post by StavrosK »

6stringmerc wrote: post #110
banana_giraffe wrote: post #12

I have a chronic condition that causes pain. One of the things I've learned, in as much as I can, is I don't tell anyone. I'd rather be rude than explain I'm in pain. Not because I don't appreciate sympathy. Not because I'm ashamed. It's because I don't want your advice on how to make the pain go away or to deal with it. I'm tired of advice. I've got too much advice. I try things, I research issues. I talk to doctors…

I occasionally limp due to a chronic condition. The last thing I want is any comments about it, because a few days later I might not. Unsolicited commentary is usually met with a sigh and a brush off, not telling the truth. The truth is I have built up defense mechanisms and anybody trying to point out my weaknesses can get a face full of their own by way of training watching Triumph the Insult Comic Dog. "Mind your…

This is rather off topic, but your post reminded me of it. In Uni, there was a professor who had a very pronounced limp. Whenever I saw him around, it was the only thing about him I'd notice.

In the 3rd year, we had a class with him. After the second lecture, I had so gotten accustomed to him that if you had asked me who the professor with the limp was, I would have honestly replied that I didn't know any professors like that. The fact that I had gotten to talk to him and see him teachn so I knew more about him than justn "has a limp" probably played a part.

I guess I have no point to make with this anecdote, take from it what you will.

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#178

Post by DoreenMichele »

wutbrodo wrote: post #176
DoreenMichele wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's virtue signaling, not caring. It's pretending to care and expecting to get pats on the head for it while actually being a burden to someone whose life is already overburdened. It's the opposite of actually caring about a person. It's caring about them making you feel good about going through superficial "caring" motions while doing absolutely no good and lots of terrible harm when it is added up over time for th…

> If people care, they do what actually helps you rather than insisting you make them feel good for superficial bullshit that only adds to your suffering. This is a very simplistic way to look at people. A lot of people are misinformed or not thoughtful or don't fully understand your experience or frankly not that bright. The idea that people who genuinely care never do any damage is beyond ludicrous.

That's a ludicrous interpretation of my remark.

People who actually care will be okay with being told "This isn't helping. Please just stop." But that's not what the vast majority of people do.

The vast majority of people want it acknowledged that they are good people because they care about you and are trying to help and all this shit.

If they cared, they would drop it when asked instead of doubling down on trying to demand that you make them feel like a good person for fucking with your life and trampling your boundaries.

I also have a serious condition. No, most people absolutely do not actually care about my welfare.

I have tons of firsthand experience with this and I'm not budging one inch.

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#179

Post by Gracana »

f2000 wrote: post #155

A few years ago I fell and broke my elbow. It was a mess and had to have emergency surgery to put it all back together. After surgery I'm sent home with a "ball" around my neck that is a reservoir for some pain meds that are being fed into my body via a catheter that was threaded into a vein in my neck. So I am sitting on my recliner a few hours after the surgery , awake but groggy. Anesthesiologist calls me on my ce…

It's amazing what doctors don't think to explain. Like, buddy, I know you've seen this a million times before, but trust me this is the first time I've ever done this...

Re: How to deal with extreme physical pain

#180

Post by wpietri »

kshacker wrote: post #127
banana_giraffe wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. One beer every 3 months is proof my diet is a problem? For a condition you know nothing about? Really. Fine, then it's useless, and I've surrounded myself with idiots, all of my careful testing and attempts to understand my condition have failed. This kinda of nonsense, where I debate the very meaning of "me" to some extent is tiring. Even if I'm wrong in all of this, I'm not h…

I think you need to cool down. We live in a complex world. Some of us know the health side well a lot of us don't. Then we get an issue, like I had a heart attack and stents, and besides what the doctors and the family say, we read and read and read. And then when we see all the healthcare industry is trying to do is to make money from our sickness, when we see a friend in similar or really tangential pain, we try to…

Nope. He does not need to cool down. He needs people to realize when "trying to help" is not helping. When it's actually about appearing smart or appeasing one's anxieties or showboating or controlling or getting nice points.

If you think somebody might benefit from your advice, you could ask. "Hey, I have been through X, would my opinion be useful?" But before you do that, maybe think about the vast number of people who have already jumped in to offer unsolicited, unhelpful, and unwanted advice. And maybe just trust that if a person needs your advice, they'll ask you for it.

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