Wim Hof’s teachings about breath work and the health benefits of cold plunges • Hacker News Board

Re: Wim Hof’s teachings about breath work and the health benefits of cold plunges

#171

Post by throw1234651234 » Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 6:04 PM UTC

vram22 wrote: post #167

NeuNeurosis wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, but the solution he taught was not cessation of desire but detachment from that desire. https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/harris/bl141.htm...

>not cessation of desire but detachment from that desire. Yes, and Krishna says basically the same to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita: Abhyaasa and vairaagya - practice and dispassion (same as detachment): https://www.google.com/search?q=abhyasa+vairagya+bhagavad+gi... https://www.holy-bhagavad-gita.org/chapter/6/verse/35

1. The Bhagavad Gita is a completely unreadable rant that provides ZERO tangible information without a 1000 interpretations, like many other religious texts. Except it's the worst offender. Though, Oppenheimer did make it sound way cooler than it is.

The 4 noble truths / the 8-fold path are a breath of fresh air in comparison.

2. Lacking desire and detachment from desire is pure semantics, as the goal is not to desire the object of your desire. See how redundant that statement is?

Essentially, Buddhism is about apathy. Why? Because poor people in India at the time of the rich-kid prince had no way to address suffering through action.

Being a Christian monk / ascetic is the same thing as being a Buddhist - escape from the real world.

--- "cessation of desire but detachment from that desire" "but detachment from that desire"

So, "a lack of desire for the object of desire", to address your quote specifically and stress what I said above.

Re: Wim Hof’s teachings about breath work and the health benefits of cold plunges

#172

Post by amelius » Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 6:11 PM UTC

httpsterio wrote: post #166

amelius wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> exercise your jaw. This can help build wider mouths I have bruxism. My doctor told me specifically to not chew excessively. Also, despite the bruxism over a period of >20 years, I don't have a wide mouth :(

Chewing hard stuff will make your jaw muscles stronger, but the reason you most likely have bruxism is due to a habit of chewing and its an automated reflex. Do you chew gum?

I rarely chew gum, and my doctor said I should avoid it.

Re: Wim Hof’s teachings about breath work and the health benefits of cold plunges

#173

Post by loco5niner » Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 6:44 PM UTC

elbows wrote: post #160

pge wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understand correctly from the various articles on this topic, there is a theory (with some evidence) that the lack of difficult chewing in childhood while the jaw is developing, leads to smaller mouths and tooth or breathing issues. Nestor's book does not make the claim that chewing tough foods as an adult makes a difference. What he does refer to extensively is a doctor that has an expander device to enlarge th…

He actually does make this claim very specifically. In his conclusions chapter, one of the main headings is "Chew", where he states: "the bones in the human face don't stop growing in our 20s, unlike other bones in the body." And then goes on to recommend eating "foods that require an hour or two a day of hard chewing". I seem to recall that earlier in the book he describes some research that documented this effect,…

Sounds like a good way to get TMJ. Probably a good thing to run past your dentist first.

Re: Wim Hof’s teachings about breath work and the health benefits of cold plunges

#174

Post by vram22 » Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 6:47 PM UTC

starwatch wrote: post #58

vram22 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The treatment was shown to send type II into remission. Does that mean the same as cured? Edit: The linked article says: >and even achieve remission (no longer have diabetes)

Not an expert on this, but remission is defined as: > a temporary diminution of the severity of disease or pain. My understanding is that after the treatment, and while in remission, people would need to maintain a healthy lifestyle to avoid relapse. It's still early days for this treatment so I'd guess that they're being cautious with their language.

Got it, and I think yours closer to the real meaning than what the article says - based on having read that word in context multiple times.

Re: Wim Hof’s teachings about breath work and the health benefits of cold plunges

#175

Post by jasonv » Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 6:57 PM UTC

Invictus0 wrote: post #150

brnt wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you wrote 'way better than coffee', I had to think of my favourite morning routine: getting up and going straight to work on my bicycle. In winter this gives me a sort of freshness shock that may be similar to the cold shower. There's nothing quite like it in terms of waking up: indeed it's better than coffee.

My personal experience doesn't agree with this. In college I had a habit of waking up with the exact minimum amount of time necessary to get to class. I would throw myself out of bed, get dressed and brush my teeth as quickly as possible, sprint down the stairs, and then race my bike as quickly as I could to class--only to fall back asleep as soon as I was in my chair. In fairness, I was rather sleep deprived at that…

I think you can commute-as-exercise, and commute-not-as-exercise. They're different engagements.

When I lived in Berlin, I would run in the mornings in the winter... it'd be below freezing. 1st 5 minutes I'd be cold, but once I started running-running, I was warm and the temps didn't bother me.

Then I'd come home, shower, breakfast and ride my bike to the office. I'd be cold.

Re: Wim Hof’s teachings about breath work and the health benefits of cold plunges

#176

Post by ta1234567890 » Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 7:14 PM UTC

throw1234651234 wrote: post #171

vram22 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>not cessation of desire but detachment from that desire. Yes, and Krishna says basically the same to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita: Abhyaasa and vairaagya - practice and dispassion (same as detachment): https://www.google.com/search?q=abhyasa+vairagya+bhagavad+gi... https://www.holy-bhagavad-gita.org/chapter/6/verse/35

1. The Bhagavad Gita is a completely unreadable rant that provides ZERO tangible information without a 1000 interpretations, like many other religious texts. Except it's the worst offender. Though, Oppenheimer did make it sound way cooler than it is. The 4 noble truths / the 8-fold path are a breath of fresh air in comparison. 2. Lacking desire and detachment from desire is pure semantics, as the goal is not to desir…

> 2. Lacking desire and detachment from desire is pure semantics, as the goal is not to desire the object of your desire. See how redundant that statement is?

Technically the goal is to be able to freely choose what to do when the desire arises (instead of having a knee-jerk reaction pattern), which is very different than not having the desire.

The problem I see here is that you are trying to use words to completely define something which cannot be fully expressed in words. Buddha's teaching requires practice, not intellectual or philosophical "understanding" of the words. When you start practicing and develop awareness of the things that happen within your mind and body, only then you truly get to "know" (experience) the difference between desire and detachment from desire.

> Essentially, Buddhism is about apathy. Why? Because poor people in India at the time of the rich-kid prince had no way to address suffering through action.

In a purely philosophical, sociological or historical sense, maybe you are right. But the intention and the practice of Buddha's teachings are most definitely not about apathy in any way, even if the words can be somehow thought of as meaning that. Again, the issue is that you truly need to experience these things within you to really know them.

Re: Wim Hof’s teachings about breath work and the health benefits of cold plunges

#177

Post by throw1234651234 » Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 7:51 PM UTC

ta1234567890 wrote: post #161

throw1234651234 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take cold showers. They do virtually nothing for me except if I am extremely sleepy. "make a continuous effort to face the uncomfortable" That's not the Buddhist teaching. The Buddhist teaching is apathy to everything via lack of desire. "but with the goal of reaching full detachment (Nirvana). You can also do both together." The stated goal of Buddhism is lack of desire. The stated goal of modern meditation is a r…

> That's not the Buddhist teaching. The Buddhist teaching is apathy to everything via lack of desire. First, Buddhism is a term that includes a huge range of religions and practices derived from Buddha's teachings. Second, I don't know what form of Buddhism you are talking about, but Buddha certainly didn't teach apathy, in fact one of the biggest emphasis in his teaching was compassion, which is pretty much the oppo…

This warrants a thought out reply - I will come back later to respond fully.

Re: Wim Hof’s teachings about breath work and the health benefits of cold plunges

#178

Post by brian_cunnie » Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 8:10 PM UTC

starwatch wrote: post #40

brian_cunnie wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have type II diabetes, and swimming in cold water (SF Bay, temperatures 50°-65° F 10°-18° C) 3 times a week for six years has not changed my A1c (measurement of diabetes). No one is "cured" of type II diabetes (exception: gestational diabetes). The best you can hope for is not to have to take meds, but the price you pay is an exercise regimen and an extremely disciplined diet (I haven't eaten rice, bread, pasta, or…

I believe there's a low-calorie treatment pioneered by a research group out of Oxford University a few years ago. The treatment was shown to send type II into remission. It's currently available on the NHS in the UK: https://www.england.nhs.uk/diabetes/treatment-care/low-calor...

The research group's definition of remission is, IIRC, "the diabetic no longer needs to take meds", e.g. metformin.

But this doesn't mean they're cured. For example, they can't binge on chocolate cake or pizza.

Instead, rather than using medicine to control their blood sugar, they use a strict diet & exercise.

I'm a type II diabetic, and when I saw my doctor with a good A1c (5.8), she said, "Another doctor wouldn't be able to tell you were diabetic looking at these numbers. But make no mistake: you can't go back to your old ways of eating, or else it'll all come back. Those days are over."

My metabolism is permanently broken. The symptoms are in remission, but I'm by no means cured.

Re: Wim Hof’s teachings about breath work and the health benefits of cold plunges

#179

Post by brian_cunnie » Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 8:15 PM UTC

vram22 wrote: post #46

brian_cunnie wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have type II diabetes, and swimming in cold water (SF Bay, temperatures 50°-65° F 10°-18° C) 3 times a week for six years has not changed my A1c (measurement of diabetes). No one is "cured" of type II diabetes (exception: gestational diabetes). The best you can hope for is not to have to take meds, but the price you pay is an exercise regimen and an extremely disciplined diet (I haven't eaten rice, bread, pasta, or…

>the price you pay is an exercise regimen I read somewhere that N. Vittal, a prominent Indian civil servant, controlled his diabetes by walking a lot, daily. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/N._Vittal >and an extremely disciplined diet (I haven't eaten rice, bread, pasta, or potatoes in 9 years). What about other forms of wheat products like semolina, couscous, etc? Other cereal grains?

W.r.t. walking. Yes, it's a wonderful way to bring down your blood sugar. I once ate too much carbs, and my blood sugar spiked to 180 (I shouldn't let it get over 160, normal people's blood sugar rarely go over 120). I was able to bring it down 50 points, to 130, by walking vigorously for 1/2 hour.

> What about other forms of wheat products like semolina, couscous, etc? Other cereal grains?

I stay away from them, but I haven't done a rigorous study. I know that, as far as diabetes is concerned, white rice is terrible for you, and brown rice is just as bad.

In general the only carbo-foods I'm comfortable with are legumes (beans) because their carbs take longer to digest.

Re: Wim Hof’s teachings about breath work and the health benefits of cold plunges

#180

Post by brian_cunnie » Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 8:21 PM UTC

FPGAhacker wrote: post #30

brian_cunnie wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have type II diabetes, and swimming in cold water (SF Bay, temperatures 50°-65° F 10°-18° C) 3 times a week for six years has not changed my A1c (measurement of diabetes). No one is "cured" of type II diabetes (exception: gestational diabetes). The best you can hope for is not to have to take meds, but the price you pay is an exercise regimen and an extremely disciplined diet (I haven't eaten rice, bread, pasta, or…

If you don't mind sharing, what do you eat?

Every morning:

- 1 pint milk - coffee - 1/4 cup oatmeal

During the day, a big salad consisting of the following:

- kale - romaine lettuce - baby spinach - butter lettuce - arugula - carrots - mushrooms - sweet potato ribbons (uncooked) - shaved parmesan cheese - sunflower seeds - pumpkin seeds - peanuts - salt - pepper - unbelievable amounts of olive oil - avocado

Snacks:

- apples (1 or 2) - blueberries

Once a week I might have eggs & bacon, or a quest bar (low carb), or diet soda (I still have a sweet tooth)