China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet • Hacker News Board

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#171

Post by boomboomsubban » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 3:36 PM UTC

dirtyid wrote: post #81

Miner49er wrote: post #5

What China has done to Tibet is horrible. One thing that is missing from this article is how they are doing this? How are they coercing people? Are they literally dragging them out of their homes? Threatening them? Or are they just offering them opportunities that are actually preferable to their current conditions, and the people are accepting them?

>missing from this article These things are always conveniently missing or deliberately misreported for manufactured consent. TL;DR: there's no clear evidence of coercion, also no evidence of no coercion, but China bad so ergo it's coercive. Western media: it's forced labour despite forced labour not being mentioned at all. But that's expected with another Zenz media push: https://jamestown.org/program/jamestown-earl…

It's not very hard to imagine someplace like India getting praise for a nearly identical program. "Country offers job placement training to poorest rural workers" sounds like it would be popular everywhere.

It also reminds me that the US still has internment schools, where poor Native American children "voluntarily" live in Catholic foster homes and attend US public school.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#172

Post by platinumrad » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 3:37 PM UTC

iliveinchina wrote: post #131

Tibetan history, like Chinese history, is complicated. On the subject of Tibetan assimilation: what most people think of Tibet - that is the current Tibetan autonomous region of the PRC - is actually only about 1/3 of what many Tibetans would call "Tibet." What is culturally and ethnically Tibetan actually stretches across Qinghai province, as well as large swaths of Sichuan, and part of Yunnan and Gansu. If you go t…

"What is culturally and ethnically Mongolian actually stretches across the Middle East, as well as large swaths of Russia and Europe."

It simply isn't feasible to grant every cultural group the full extent of their historical claims.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#173

Post by ip26 » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 3:39 PM UTC

magicsmoke wrote: post #65

liminal wrote: post #10

Han supremacy has all the markings of other supremacist movements and will unfortunately need to be confronted. Not sure when the world will work up the courage to do so, though.

If by the world you mean the west (do you see the countries in Africa or the Middle East caring about this?) then only when China actually attacks western interests, namely allied democracies like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. Note that the Allies in WW2 didn't go to war against the Axis supremacists until they expanded outside their borders, and the western allies didn't take significant action against Japan until…

didn't go to war against the Axis supremacists until they expanded outside their borders...

Your parent comment is probably supposing that all supremacist movements eventually wind up doing this. Which is not a ridiculous suggestion- a fundamental precept of supremacist movements is usually the idea that the supposedly supreme group has a right to rule, and such ideas have a history of leading to invasion & conquest.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#174

Post by curiousgal » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 3:40 PM UTC

I wonder where all the people begging others not to forget about the Holocaust are. The fact that such astrocities still exist proves that remembering past ones is self-serving in a sense.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#175

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 3:41 PM UTC

BowBun wrote: post #43

I'm seeing a lot of flagged comments and repeated commenters seeming to exaggerate viewpoints and stir up discord in this thread. I'm not always on the 'china bad' train but it seems like their social engineering efforts have reached HN. Readers, please double-check your sources and form your own opinions beyond repeating what you read in an HN thread.

[deleted]

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#176

Post by QuesnayJr » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 3:44 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #140

aww_dang wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging the past on the standards of the present isn't a productive line of reasoning. Using past mistakes to rationalize further atrocities is beyond regressive.

> Judging the past on the standards of the present isn't a productive line of reasoning. Well, the US still has Hawaii, Mexico, Puerto Rico, the Native Americans confined in reservations, and so on. They're not giving those back anytime soon. Those, plus, 3-4 invasions and tons of bombings of different places (sovereign countries) in the last 20 years alone. Plus a continuous such history throughtout the 20th century…

Wait, you think Native Americans are confined in reservations? Like there's a big fence around the reservation, and they can't go out?

Puerto Rico can have independence any time they want. They've had several referenda, and independence has yet to win.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#177

Post by Ericson2314 » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 3:44 PM UTC

jjcon wrote: post #144

coldtea wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. Yeah, kinda like Hawaii. (Not to mention Native Americans' lands, civilization, and culture). Or, well, Mexico. Sure, it's, "whataboutism". Which is an improvement on the our-shit-doesn't-smell-besides-that-was-back-a-while-ago-so-we-get-to-keep-it-now "Western perspective". Or…

Because Britain and Spain colonized Hawaii in the 1500s nobody can criticize China for using forced labor in the 2020s? That takes some serious mental gymnastics.

Are you thinking of the Philipines or Puerto Rico? Hawaii was never colonized by the Spanish.

That said, I don't mind to refute the larger point. In fact, I would make Puerto Rico independent in conjunction with recognizing Taiwan.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#178

Post by Ericson2314 » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #142

yters wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so if a reformed mob boss sees other mobsters extorting people, he cannot step in and stop them because he did the same thing in the past? every culture has done horrible things in the past. does that mean no one should try to prevent modern crimes against humanity? i really don't understand this kind of ethical reasoning, just sounds like pious excuses to sit on our hands

> so if a reformed mob boss sees other mobsters extorting people, he cannot step in and stop them because he did the same thing in the past? Reformed? LOL. > i really don't understand this kind of ethical reasoning, just sounds like pious excuses to sit on our hands It's the ethical imperative of: - not being a hypocrite, - being the change you want to see in the world, and putting your house in order first - the old…

This why I say pair criticism of China with penance.

For example, give up Puerto Rico and Hawaii but recognize Taiwan at the same time.

China may not officially give a shit, but Europe and many former colonies should.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#179

Post by NegativeLatency » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

yenwodyah wrote: post #167

free_rms wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afghanistan, Iraq? And that's before we get into proxy wars.

Neither of those countries are being colonized, by any definition of the word.

https://www.wordnik.com/words/colonized

> adjective politically ruled by citizens of another country.

Seems to fit this definition

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#180

Post by api » Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

It's similar to our reluctance to criticize Saudi Arabia even when there are links between their upper crust and the largest terror attack ever on American soil. Saudi Arabia is still one of the largest oil spigots with the easiest ability to turn that spigot on and off and therefore set global oil prices, so we don't dare offend them.