Earlier quoted context omitted.
1. US Philippines Defence Treaty, USA allegedly refused to honor it when Philippines demanded USA assist clearing Mischief Reef, multiple times, and under multiple administrations. 2. Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security Between the United States and Japan, refused to acknowledge Chinese hostility against Japanese controlled island. 3. Mutual Defense Treaty Between the United States and the Republic of Korea, Ko…
What Russian coup in Montenegro?
Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life
171–180 of 288 posts
Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think war can still go on between nuclear armed nations - Tradional naval war happens in a localized region whereas the nuke option with current ICBMs is a complete and utter destruction of the country. Imagine 200 ICMBs landing in the US or China. So, I think this would be the last resort and not the first. Nuclear deterrance works when one party is actually suicidal and weak (North Korea), because if they smell b…
Nope, there will be no great power wars while MAD still exists (and it does between china and the US). At best, you will get some kind of military skirmish before they decide to pull out the nukes. There will likely be threats of nuclear exchange which lead to a cease fire. If there is no cease fire, than God help us all. But no, two nuclear armed states are not going to fight a large scale conventional war. Partly t…
I do wonder what will happen when we arrive at a point in the future where a country has developed perfect ICBM intercept technology. Of course there is still the submarine and bomber approach as well but they can’t as easily be dialed up in literal minutes.
Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life
#173From a simpletons perspective, I don't understand why we get to have a say of how a country reclaims its former territory. Especially from Westerners(not even land connected) who have no claim whatsoever. Why do we have a negative outlook on our former empires colonizing the world while at the same time doing everything possible to retain profits/power from these bad things we shouldn't be doing? Very hypocritical to…
On of the reasons, perhaps a less important reason ethically but nonetheless, is that China has breached the terms of the territorial handover agreement.
The agreement does not grant China full control to do whatever it likes over the territory at this time.
So legally, in response, Westerners in the form of the UK still have some kind of duty towards the people there.
A second reason, which I rank higher ethically, is that just by virtue of people existing, we still have a duty to demand better treatment for people who are being treated badly, especially when it's an imposed political event (and therefore can be changed) which is going to radically change their lives for the worse as they see it. Landmass connection or not.
Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I can't help but imagine how different it would be if the US and EU/Britain (as leads) would have strongly denounced their approach. What? What could the US have done beyond what we did other than all out war? The US response to this was very harsh. We undid 50 years of diplomacy with China, and have started building a sortof SEA equivalent to NATO. Chinese/American relations have probably never been as unfriendly…
I think the dissonance over the US not doing enough is that if the US pulled these moves a decade or two ago, China would have blinked. China not blinking doesn't mean the US isn't doing enough. It means we're living in a world where China doesn't blink anymore. America's absolute influence might still be the same, but its relative influence has fallen.
Right or wrong, I suggest you and others go back to interviews of Kissinger about why he pushed to open the world to China the way the US did. It was essentially do it on our terms now or theirs for ever after. Not that it was right, but it is informative.
Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life
#175From a simpletons perspective, I don't understand why we get to have a say of how a country reclaims its former territory. Especially from Westerners(not even land connected) who have no claim whatsoever. Why do we have a negative outlook on our former empires colonizing the world while at the same time doing everything possible to retain profits/power from these bad things we shouldn't be doing? Very hypocritical to…
Was it former territory? China has seen various power takeovers since the start of British rule in Hong Kong. In 1842, was ruled by the Qing dynasty, in 1912 it became the Republic of China, and in 1949, the Chinese Communist Party took over, leaving Taiwan to the Nationalist government. So you could also argue that Hong Kong should have been returned to Taiwan. Not that that could have happened, but it's not clear cut, IMO.
Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps avoiding Millions be put in camps and used as cheap source of organ harvesting.
This is a weak argument: Should USA be reigned in as well to avoid millions be put in prisons and used a cheap source of labor?
Wow, comparing punishing people that Commit crimes to wholesale genocide and organ harvesting.
Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life
#177What has happened to Hong Kong is a strong canary-in-the-coal-mine indicator for other Chinese territorial disputes [i]. With Hong Kong it was somewhat inevitable but I can't help but imagine how different it would be if the US and EU/Britain (as leads) would have strongly denounced their approach. I suspect in a decade from now the West will be lamenting how Hong Kong was the right opportunity to stifle China's ambi…
> I can't help but imagine how different it would be if the US and EU/Britain (as leads) would have strongly denounced their approach. What? What could the US have done beyond what we did other than all out war? The US response to this was very harsh. We undid 50 years of diplomacy with China, and have started building a sortof SEA equivalent to NATO. Chinese/American relations have probably never been as unfriendly…
The problem is the US has done a lot (though it's not solely to blame) to propel China up on the world stage, especially in the last decade+. We have given up a lot of our world leadership duties in many aspects and China wasted no time in filling any voids that we left behind.
This isn't just a Trump thing (though he has accelerated pulling the US out of leadership positions) but it goes back to the lack of response to the Crimea annexation (and Russia's continual pushing of it's Ukrainian boundary).
China has spent the last several decades smartly becoming more diversified in what countries they depend on, while at the same time making sure the whole world was heavily reliant on themselves. Due to that no one country can do anything to keep China in check, and in normal times that would be OK. However, the world has relied on the US to form global coalitions that would work together to push back against things like this, and now that the US has made it clear it will not work with anyone else (even allies), China knows that no other country has the influence to form such a coalition. That means it doesn't even need to be coy about what it's doing (as we are seeing with Hong Kong).
So yeah, I agree that in 2019 and 2020 the US and Eu/Britain couldn't have done anything meaningful, but what's happening right now is heavily caused by the US' pulling out of the world stage leading up to it.
Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I can't help but imagine how different it would be if the US and EU/Britain (as leads) would have strongly denounced their approach. What? What could the US have done beyond what we did other than all out war? The US response to this was very harsh. We undid 50 years of diplomacy with China, and have started building a sortof SEA equivalent to NATO. Chinese/American relations have probably never been as unfriendly…
I think the onus here was more on the UK than the US because the UK was the one with an agreement with the Chinese government that was broken. I agree that the US response has already been a lot.
The UK effectively offered asylum to millions of HKers, in a move basically unprecedented after WWII, and drew a line over previous plans to coordinate on things like 5G and nuclear. What else could they have done? In a world of superpowers, the UK alone is small potatoes.
Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
The best predictor for future behavior is past behavior: China is testing the waters, in some cases in a quite literal sense (South China Sea), and you're correct that how the world reacts to Hong Kong and the Xinjiang "re-education camps" will be seen as a vital piece of information in the future when deciding on how to proceed with other "problematic" regions: for example Taiwan, which in the case where strong-armi…
Capitalism is not incompatible with dictatorships. Pinochet is a common example, but also Nazi Germany had a working state capitalism, like China.
Not structurally incompatible but typically suffering from stunted growth. Nazi Germany didn't go on enough to show its limits, but Franco's Spain or Pinochet's Chile struggled to grow until their strongman went away.
Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the dissonance over the US not doing enough is that if the US pulled these moves a decade or two ago, China would have blinked. China not blinking doesn't mean the US isn't doing enough. It means we're living in a world where China doesn't blink anymore. America's absolute influence might still be the same, but its relative influence has fallen.
Right or wrong, I suggest you and others go back to interviews of Kissinger about why he pushed to open the world to China the way the US did. It was essentially do it on our terms now or theirs for ever after. Not that it was right, but it is informative.
Couldn’t find it can you share a link ?