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Patrick Collison's Questions

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Re: Patrick Collison's Questions

#171

Post by badestrand »

nemothekid wrote: post #130
ffggvv wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why can’t you just attribute it to culture? it’s clearly that

You can, but it looks like everyone else in this thread is lazer focused on Japan (likely due to the prestige of Japanese culture). But that doesn't explain Switzerland. Is Switzerland closer to Japanese in culture than they are to Dutch? I think obviously not, but from the thread you would assume otherwsie.

Both countries (Switzerland and Japan) have a culture of a focus on quality, so they are very close in this trait.

The Dutch are IMO very pragmatic people that, while quality is important to them, are more willing to sacrifice it for other things that are of higher priority.

So it's not about a general sharing of culture but only about sharing the quality-focus aspect.

Re: Patrick Collison's Questions

#172

Post by switz »

paxys wrote: post #97

The infrastructure one really stands out to me, and I'm always astounded by it. Adding yet another example - The Golden Gate Bridge was built in 4 years for $1.6 billion (inflation adjusted), under budget and ahead of schedule. 11 workers died during construction, a safety record matching or surpassing most modern projects. In contrast, a project to install suicide nets around the bridge has been under development fo…

This is something I've ruminated on a lot – but frankly, I'm in no way qualified to understand or make sense of it. The two things that I often come back to are:

1) the pathways that infrastructure would run through have more "things" (a scientific term) in the way, raising the time and cost of a project. My father often mentioned how when I-95 was built, many homes near where he grew up had to be physically moved to accommodate it. That was in the 1950s. That problem only grows more complex over time. It's no surprise that building a new subway in NYC would have been 'easier' and cheaper in 1900 than in 2000, despite advances in technology, per Patrick's question.

2) investment in infrastructure requires foresight and time. It demands a long view. Who wants to be the one responsible for allocating a huge chunk of change for a project that they won't be in office to get credit for?

Please tell me why I'm wrong or what else I'm missing, I'd love to learn more about this.

Re: Patrick Collison's Questions

#173

Post by fomine3 »

roenxi wrote: post #170
paxys wrote: post #97

The infrastructure one really stands out to me, and I'm always astounded by it. Adding yet another example - The Golden Gate Bridge was built in 4 years for $1.6 billion (inflation adjusted), under budget and ahead of schedule. 11 workers died during construction, a safety record matching or surpassing most modern projects. In contrast, a project to install suicide nets around the bridge has been under development fo…

> Where/when did we go wrong, and how do we fix it? Speaking logically; there can't be anything is making it physically harder to build infrastructure over time. And nothing physical is making the economics of railroads worse. Therefore the changes have to be entirely legal, political and social. The specifics are probably things like increased environmental scrutiny, greater political impediments to forcing people o…

> Speaking logically; there can't be anything is making it physically harder to build infrastructure over time. And nothing physical is making the economics of railroads worse.

Building could be harder over time when lands to build is used for other purpose. Railloads economics could be worse relatively over time when competitor(car, airplane) getting cheaper and improves quality.

Re: Patrick Collison's Questions

#174

Post by icelancer »

mft_ wrote: post #154
icelancer wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's shocking how HN is just overlooking this trait in addition to the very many related things in this regard that we would consider in America VERY "right-wing" to put it kindly. Having Japanese family members over there and listening to their remarks amuses me since I hear their candid opinions on race and such, but uh... Americans who idolize the country and identify as "progressive" or "liberal" would probably d…

Well, unless your premise is that the less savoury aspects of some of Japan’s citizens’ views are responsible for the aspects of their country and society that we might admire (and I don’t think you are saying that) then this is tangential to the question we are discussing. It’s not unreasonable to acknowledge or even admire some aspects of a person, a company, or a country, while also being aware that there are othe…

>> It’s not unreasonable to acknowledge or even admire some aspects of a person, a company, or a country, while also being aware that there are other aspects that are less admirable.

They are two sides of the same coin. You have the "nice" stuff because of the xenophobic policies. I'd be willing to wager the majority - if not all - of the people that loved Japan were white and didn't think about it at all.

Re: Patrick Collison's Questions

#175

Post by marcus_holmes »

keiferski wrote: post #146
ta1234567890 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the non-cultural factors which contribute to this phenomenon It's simply impossible to detach Japan from their culture. The main thing that stands out to me is their selflessness. One anectdata: Tokyo feels pretty much the opposite of NYC. In NYC it feels like people are obstacles to avoid on the way to where you are going. Nobody waits for anybody. At first it seems rude, then you realize "it's not person…

> a friend was trying to find a place to exchange some USD and got a bit lost, he asked a random person about it, this person walked my friend for 3 blocks to the currency exchange shop. This exact same thing happened to me. Two anecdotes don't make a pattern, but...Japan does have a magnificent culture of service.

It's not service in the sense that is commonly used. They're not "serving" you by helping you. It's more of a "helping me by helping us" attitude, I think.

The UK used to have this level of awareness of others, and almost this level of politeness. One of the complaints about American tourists was that they were so rude. I still find walking in a British city a pleasure (but not London, as it has lost this), because people are aware of everyone else around them, and make space for them. I find the same driving in the UK (but not London) - drivers co-operate together to keep the traffic going smoothly. People regularly let others in front of them, knowing that someone else will let them through in turn.

Walking in an Australian city is a nightmare by comparison - everyone is ignorant of others around them and annoyed if they have to alter their path at all. Driving is even worse. Australian drivers are incapable of merging at a junction because they point-blank refuse to let other people in front of them. Every other car is an obstacle to be got around, a competitor that needs to be "beaten" rather than co-operated with.

Re: Patrick Collison's Questions

#176

Post by bschne »

paxys wrote: post #144
hyperpallium2 wrote: post #136

Is Bloom's "Two Sigma" phenomenon real? If so, what do we do about it? "the average tutored student was above 98% of the students in the control class"[1] As a tutor, my goal was to identify gaps and misunderstandings. Consider: how can you give a driver helpful directions if you don't know where they are? As a student, I noticed that teachers are routinely ambiguous in ways they cannot understand. And mostly, these…

I remember Salman Khan (of Khan Academy) talking about this a few years ago. He believed that the current accepted method of teaching - students attending lectures and sitting in classrooms getting knowledge from teachers, then later doing homework alone trying to apply it - needs to be inverted. Lectures, presentations, textbooks can all be online and automated. Teaching resources, limited as they are, are much bett…

> helping students specifically when they are stuck and need more personalized help.

This is where most learning resources fall short of ideal - if you work on a problem without human guidance, you can often either work through it in whole and learn, or check out the solution if you get stuck, have a short "ah, of course!" moment and not learn much at all. A tutor can sort of "debug" through questions and targeted hints where you're going wrong, and thus make the concepts stick in a more lasting way.

I wonder if there's potential for some sort of digital learning medium which actively tries to "figure out" where the student's misunderstandings and gaps lie and addresses them in a more targeted way (optional hints are a first step, but there must be better).

Re: Patrick Collison's Questions

#177

Post by bawolff »

verroq wrote: post #74
bawolff wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: North Korea.

When was the last time North Korea had a race riot? Also North Korea has a lot more geopolitical disadvantages at hand, namely sanctions. An ethno state helps you avoid several classes of problems, like strict typing prevents runtime type errors. It doesn’t solve all administration problems.

When was the last time most countries had a race riot? Some countries have racial tension but not all ethnically diverse countries have serious racial tension.

Even if its not race, all countries have divisions. Some countries function well enough that divisions dont devolve into riots. Other's don't.

> It doesn’t solve all administration problems.

The parent post basically was claiming that it helped with all administrative problems (a claim that i certainly agree is absurd)

Re: Patrick Collison's Questions

#178

Post by keiferski »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #175
keiferski wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a friend was trying to find a place to exchange some USD and got a bit lost, he asked a random person about it, this person walked my friend for 3 blocks to the currency exchange shop. This exact same thing happened to me. Two anecdotes don't make a pattern, but...Japan does have a magnificent culture of service.

It's not service in the sense that is commonly used. They're not "serving" you by helping you. It's more of a "helping me by helping us" attitude, I think. The UK used to have this level of awareness of others, and almost this level of politeness. One of the complaints about American tourists was that they were so rude. I still find walking in a British city a pleasure (but not London, as it has lost this), because p…

You’re right, service was probably not the right word to use. Maybe duty is a better one to describe the phenomenon.

Re: Patrick Collison's Questions

#179

Post by dalbasal »

I like the way "Is Bloom's "Two Sigma" phenomenon real? If so, what do we do about it?" is loaded. Touches on several "questions" in the vein of this article.

One load is "why don't we know this with more certainty?" It's a useful thing to know. What is achievable? What's the bar? How good could education be, regardless of resources and other limitations. If true, that can be our 100% marker for instructional effectiveness.

From there, we cold say that average school instruction is 10% effective or 60% effective.

Realistically, this needs to be tackled with a lot of force to make progress. Change is likely inconvenient, in a real world environment with limited resources. Maybe school should be 3 hrs per day, not 8.

In any case, I think it's notable that high-end private education, which has more resources available, have not pursued these kind of goals any more than public education.

Re: Patrick Collison's Questions

#180

Post by marcus_holmes »

asah wrote: post #89
drcode wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree Japan is awesome (visited twice) but let's not overlook this: https://www.businessinsider.com/world-suicide-rate-map-2014-...

Or homogeneity.

This. My experience in SE Asia has shown me this. Those really strong family links make people happy and provide a safety net that can't be beaten. But it comes at the cost of suppressing all individuality. No following your dream of being an artist - you need to earn money for the family. No marrying the weird guy your mum hates. No moving city because you need to find yourself.
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