I suppose on his mind this might fit with some sort of fight with the "deep state". Beyond that I would just chalk it up to some inherent capriciousness... bordering on concerning instability.
Clearly there is a deep state. Snowden is proof.
Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
171–180 of 404 posts
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
>For example, he gave the Chinese government information about which computers the NSA had access to. When did he give them what information exactly? >don't think so, he didn't try to bring it up through proper channels first The two sides disagree whether he attempted this. Snowden say he spent tremendous effort trying to report things through the proper channels.
> When did he give them what information exactly? He gave them the information when he got to China. > The two sides disagree whether he attempted this. Snowden say he spent tremendous effort trying to report things through the proper channels. I think if he had, he'd have a single shred of evidence that he had actually tried. I find it hard to believe that he gathered a ton of information that had nothing to do with…
>He gave them the information when he got to China
Do you have any evidence to support this claim?
>I find it hard to believe that he gathered a ton of information that had nothing to do with his supposed reason for leaking the information, but didn't save a single email he could have sent to the people he tried to report it to.
Any such email would be classified information, and he destroyed his copies of all that information before leaving Hong Kong
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Almost everyone thought mass surveillance was a conspiracy theory before Snowden. On the balance maybe he still deserves prison, but denying the positives of what Snowden did is disingenuous.
I'm uncertain here, but my gut tells me that potential positive and negative effects of whistleblowing are so hard to predict and fully attribute (they tend to be at a global geopolitical scale where lots of other cofounding factors are involved), that we should judge whistleblowers on their underlying motivations instead. Was the whistleblower/leaker motivated purely by a desire to improve the welfare of their natio…
Does it really matter? He revealed unconstitutional information to the press, all very forgiveable by the 1st amendment rights of every citizen. However, since the patriot act we live in only a semblence of a democracy, closer to that than an authoritarian government but unlimited surveillance is certainly on the list of things that is very very very good for when the government has started to get some momentum towards a dictatorship. the same despotic government our current administration seems to be trying to drag us kicking and screaming towards
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Part of why Google decided to speed up their timeline on encrypting traffic across their internal network is because they learned the NSA tapped into it.
I was there when it happened, and basically the entire engineering org was pissed off at the NSA. It went from ongoing project to "we're flipping the switch within a month" or something like that.
Why were they pissed at the NSA? I thought Google cooperated with the NSA to provide access. Or did I misunderstand the situation?
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#175I'll be impressed when he actually issues a pardon. I'd say Trump is notorious for "talking about" things without ever delivering anything. Take the issue of 50 state concealed carry reciprocity. Regardless of what you think about this issue yourself, it seems clear that Trump has tried to pander to gun owners and 2A advocates by constantly talking about this. But last I heard, there had been no meaningful action on…
It's easy to promise controversial things that require Congressional action and cannot pass Congress. The President -no matter who they are or what Congressional action they promised- can't even push their allies in Congress to do something that can't work because of the filibuster or lack of sufficient majorities. Every candidate, and every President, promises things that they know Congress won't likely deliver -- c…
Presidential pardon does not require approval from Congress, does it?
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#176Trump wants to help a traitor that helped him get elected? Sounds so unlike him!
This is the first I've heard of Snowden helping elect Trump.
A lot of people believed Snowden's gross misreading of the documents he leaked, and that misreading paints a picture of deep state intelligence agencies run amok illegally spying on Americans. Of course, any literate person who reads the documents understands they don't support that picture, but there are enough barely literate QAnon believers to support an entire industry.
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#177I suppose on his mind this might fit with some sort of fight with the "deep state". Beyond that I would just chalk it up to some inherent capriciousness... bordering on concerning instability.
Clearly there is a deep state. Snowden is proof.
The context is a deep state out against Trump. Not a deep state that Trump and his allies are entrenched in...
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#178The response to this news on HN has been very disappointing. By contrast, there was a lively apolitical discussion[0] back in 2015 about the effort to bring Snowden back to the US. On the other hand, people now seem more concerned about the motivations of Trump. If it's the right thing to do, who cares about the motivation behind it or the person enacting it? This reminds me a little of the response to Trump's effort…
The main issue I see with Trump's support of anything is the impact this support has on the cause.
I believe Snowden needs to be pardoned. He made the Public aware of the shady things that are done in its name. So the Public needs to pardon Snowden for being a whistleblower and this can be voiced through the President, who is supposed to be the ultimate voice representing the Public and its interests.
However, Trumps motivations for doing anything have been fickle and marred in short-term political or personal popularity gain, sometimes to the detriment of the very thing he is supporting.
So supporting a pardon for Snowden is great but the reasons for doing so are really not clear and -as usual- not articulated in any sensible and reasonable way.
Maybe I'm wrong but this looks more like a political diversion to me, maybe a way to divert the outrage when he pardonned Stone -clearly a shady character if there was one- or just keep the news busy for a while.
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#179The Post conversation reads like Trump has just heard a pitch to attract voters, and wants to know which side of the argument could help him more.
Thats what all politicians do. They have market researches and bring up issues that are of concern to voters in times of elections.
Deciding your position on an issue and deciding whether an individual should face the justice system are two separate things to me.
Re: Trump says he is considering pardon for Edward Snowden
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's debatable whether he should be pardoned for leaking the domestic spying information (I don't think so, he didn't try to bring it up through proper channels first), but he leaked information that had nothing to do with that. For example, he gave the Chinese government information about which computers the NSA had access to. My personal theory is that he just gathered as much information as he could get hi…
>For example, he gave the Chinese government information about which computers the NSA had access to. When did he give them what information exactly? >don't think so, he didn't try to bring it up through proper channels first The two sides disagree whether he attempted this. Snowden say he spent tremendous effort trying to report things through the proper channels.
He never gave any information to any foreign government, what he has let go was directly released to American and European magazines/newspapers. Anything else is conspiracy theory garbage.