Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#171

Post by 52-6F-62 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #54

donor20 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good lord - on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes. What is the monopoly issue Apple has? Use android if you don't like Apple's product line. Apple is at 22% share.

>on HN the monopoly comments are so crazy sometimes what's crazy is harping on a technicality about the word "monopoly" and then to ignore the actual issue that is implied by the criticism, market power. Even two companies aren't a market, if you get hung up about monopoly call it a duopoly. The state of affairs is ridiculous. There should be a thriving market of competing stores, payment systems, operating systems a…

But is that required on each and every platform available on the market?

Sure, there should be more platforms available. I'm into that. Personally, I bought an iPhone because of the closed ecosystem. I don't want to have to think about my phone that much, but I want to be able to rely on it. That's what I paid for and that's what I'm getting.

From my perspective demanding that the platform be open to any and everything is a bit like going to a carwash and demanding they also do your house.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#172

Post by gcheong » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

yladiz wrote: post #126

slongfield wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a developer doesn't like Unreal's terms, there are other game engines. If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are no viable alternatives for iOS distribution.

It's a false dichotomy; the correct comparison is: If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are other phone platforms.

If you’re not published on Apple’s App Store then you can’t reach a huge segment of the market that would like to use your product. I don’t think Apple, Google, etc. , should be the gatekeepers between a developer and their customers.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#173

Post by detaro » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

almost_usual wrote: post #145

meheleventyone wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it the other way around that iOS users should be able to shop in competing stores for their apps? It’s just very few users have any real ability to affect that sort of change.

I wouldn’t be opposed to this but Apple could make a case that using a competing app store voids warranty or care because they can no longer guarantee the software is ‘safe’ for iOS.

To a degree they could (although it'd be quite embarrassing for Apple to claim that their OS can't prevent apps from damaging phones), it could be somewhat similar to how Android manufacturers sometimes handle custom ROMs by having the unlock set a permanent flag somewhere. Doesn't necessarily give them an out of legally required warranties.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#174

Post by Someone » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

aaomidi wrote: post #94

threeseed wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is simply an investigation. There are no plans in place to force Apple, Google etc. to do anything. And it's not even clear what outcome the EU is even seeking.

If past cases are something to go by, there is a very real risk here for Apple and they're digging their own regulatory grave by behaving like this.

Not doing anything might be worse. Within a month, all major money-making apps would make a similar move, hiding the functionality from Apple’s review process and then activating it once most of their users have upgraded.

Apple could spend time and money trying to find such hidden features, but that would mean many major apps would see no updates. That’s a losing game, too, even if they are successful at detecting such hidden functionality.

They must have thought about this and decided this is their optimal initial response (it need not be the final one. They can put the app back in their store in seconds)

I can understand that. Allowing this is guaranteeing the end of the App Store. Fighting gives them a chance salvaging it, parts of it, or at least, delay the inevitable.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#175

Post by damnyou » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

ecf wrote: post #91

slongfield wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a developer doesn't like Unreal's terms, there are other game engines. If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are no viable alternatives for iOS distribution.

But there are other Smartphone platforms with their own store, correct? I don’t know why people feel it’s their undeniable right to be able to provide an app to iOS users.

iOS is the market leader by profit share and by amount of money spent on app stores, as Apple fans like to talk about all the time. In a sane world, being a market leader would mean that shareholder and corporate interests are kept in check by society.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#176

Post by mhh__ » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #67

mhh__ wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monopoly or not, Apple users (apple love lock in, moving to android is not trivial) are not treated particularly well.

"I don't like it" and "It's illegal" are not the same thing.

Illegal does not imply monopoly, either.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#177

Post by globalproctd » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:38 PM UTC

wmf wrote: post #106

xoxoy wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30% is extremely high by any reasonable standard for any marketplace

FWIW brick and mortar stores usually take 40%.

I used to work stock at a bunch of retail stores for a decade and could see what percentage the markup was. It was almost never above 20%, and usually closer to 3-5%.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#178

Post by chongli » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:38 PM UTC

yladiz wrote: post #126

slongfield wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a developer doesn't like Unreal's terms, there are other game engines. If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are no viable alternatives for iOS distribution.

It's a false dichotomy; the correct comparison is: If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are other phone platforms.

No, that’s not a correct comparison. Consumers don’t buy a device from Epic in order to run Unreal engine games. Consumers don’t care at all what engine a game runs on, they only care about the game itself (and what platform it’s available on).

If you forgo the iOS platform, you lose out on the vast majority of mobile app revenue. Android may have greater market share than Apple but iOS dominates the market among people who actually buy apps (mostly affluent people in western countries).

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#179

Post by jdmoreira » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:38 PM UTC

arduinomancer wrote: post #158

jdmoreira wrote: post #113

People will take sides in this and I think they will be missing the point. These are just 2 greedy corporations strong-arming each other and trying to win some hearts in the public space. Epic would do the same if they were in Apple's position and Apple would do the same if they were in Epic's position. This is just 21st century politics and it’s all about money.

I don't think that matters because its clear the end consumer would benefit here if epic were allowed their own payment system.

Do you really think they wouldn’t maximize their profit anyway? Being more expensive in the appstore is just politics.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#180

Post by jariel » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:38 PM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #21

FreakyT wrote: post #4

Really hoping regulators crack down hard on Apple's clearly anticompetitive practices. If Apple allowed sideloading the entire point would be, of course, moot, but Apple's continued refusal to allow this is really the biggest problem, IMO.

As a user I'm quite happy with Apple intermediating my relationship with companies that seek to do business with me over the phone, and I'd actually be happier if Apple took over more of my relationships. I don't want a situation where 10 apps means 10 different privacy agreements. I also don't want to deal with app companies directly for returns or their custom payment solutions — an "Amazon" is way better.

This comment misses the point though.

If you want to be happy with using the store for all your life's needs - that's completely fine. Nobody will argue with you here.

Otherwise, people should be able to download as they please.

Imagine if your electricity company only allowed 'approved Toasters' on their electric grid, complete with special plugins, and a 30% cut of the device.

It's an anti-competitive practice as old as time.