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I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

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Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#171

Post by imtringued »

aitchnyu wrote: post #117
blntechie wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time, they don’t ask for money explicitly at all but they will put procedural roadblocks so one pick up the cue and bribe them. Like Priority Shipping for a bad analogy. Pay to fasten and smoothen your experience kind of thing. Of course it’s illegal.

Same for me registering a car. The dealer sent me 12 documents and the inspector wanted a few more. The dealer wasn't clear what they were. So I had to waste a few hours for two days. The agent was able to cut the queue and I spent as much time as to expose the engine number under the bonnet. The agent is the funnel for bribe from me to the department.

It appears that way. If you talk to them directly they are going to ignore you and delay things. Then there are agents that specialize in fast tracking. The agents know the officials and hand over the arranged bribe and the agent just charges more to cover the bribe.

There is now plausible deniability because the agents look like they are actually providing a valuable service.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#172

Post by imtringued »

momokoko wrote: post #49
blntechie wrote: post #24

I think what the OP went through is pretty much re-zoning of an agricultural land to commercial/industrial land which probably will run into similar roadblocks in Western world too? Of course, not saying it will take this long but have heard about similar bureaucracy. Small town governments in USA at least are very strict with their zoning codes and based on things what I have heard, changing the zone sometimes requi…

Exactly, this is a re-zoning process not “opening a manufacturing plant”. I can almost guarantee this land was purchased for significantly less because it is agricultural land as well. States have plenty of reasonable concerns about re-zoning agricultural land into commercial land. The most obvious being that if there are spills or other environmental issues it could destroy much of the agricultural land around it. N…

The author is dishonest because he refuses to pay bribes? If anything dishonest people have an easier time because they would just pay the bribe.

The author doesn't complain about the necessity. He is complaining that compliance doesn't result in receiving a permit.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#174

Post by imtringued »

uj8efdkjfdshf wrote: post #11
rohan_shah wrote: post #2

Author of the article here. Do ask me if you have any questions.

Some questions: - How much would you expect to spend if you were to pay all the bribes? Are you unable to afford them, or is this more of a moral issue? - Is there any reason why you are effectively purchasing agricultural land and rezoning it to industrial land, rather than buying existing industrial land? What is your plan if you cannot obtain all the necessary NOCs? - Is there any utility/road/rail access to your…

The article mentions that he wants India to become more business friendly. Giving in to the corruption will only make the problem worse I guess.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#175

Post by imtringued »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #108
steffan wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to note to, is that any American citizen would be unable to set up manufacturing this way because it is explicitly illegal for U.S. citizens to pay bribes to foreign governments. [Foreign Corrupt Practices Act - FCPA] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/foreign-corrupt-practic... (Although given this account from presumably an Indian citizen, I can't imagine in any way recommending a non-local attempting t…

Paying bribes is illegal; but facilitation payments are legal. If you have an official who is refusing to perform their job, or taking inordinately long about doing it, then it's legal to pay them to do it. As long as you're not influencing their actual decision making process, i.e. causing them to overlook actual legal deficiencies in your paperwork, then it is legal. It's called the facilitation payment exception t…

>Obviously one intending to make such a payment would be well advised to discuss with their lawyer to make sure it is indeed within the scope of the exception.

Come on. It's obvious that the "lawyer" (or agent as mentioned in the article) is paying the fees and you aren't even aware of the process unless go to the department directly and notice the lack of willingness to process your permit.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#176

Post by imtringued »

rohan_shah wrote: post #135
ipsi wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having now done all of this yourself, do you think the amount they charge is reasonable, given how incredibly painful it is to do this on your own?

No, I don't find the amount reasonable because of two reasons: 1) They charge so high because there are few players with so many internal contacts. So this is a monopoly or oligopoly market just taking advantage of the system. I mean it is hard because of these people. These people lobby to keep such systems in place. 2) It is unreasonable for any government, especially in a developing country to make so many demands…

It does sound like feudalism but this time it's not about farmland. It's about industrial land.

However, there is one difference. A small factory can employ many people. If you succeed, you won't be the only one who benefits.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#177

Post by imtringued »

robofanatic wrote: post #151

I think there needs to be regulation. You can't just build whatever you want on an agricultural land even if you own it. Lets say someone builds a Chemical factory, what would the neighboring land owners or residents do if it starts polluting the land?

Who is arguing against regulation here?

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#178

Post by piva00 »

imtringued wrote: post #173
epx wrote: post #31

As a famous Brazilian writer said: "Underdevelopment is not improvised; it takes centuries to perfect."

So are you saying the poverty is there by design? People want things to stay the same even if it means stagnation?

Not all the people, the people in the elite of Brazil very much want to keep things as they are. They don't think that the violence and other social issues they encounter is a result of their own actions, as any conservative elite they want to keep the status quo because the current inequality benefits them handsomely.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#179

Post by piva00 »

shadowprofile77 wrote: post #130
epx wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nelson Rodrigues. The original in pt_BR is “Subdesenvolvimento não se improvisa; é obra de séculos.”

More literal English translation then: Underdevelopment isn't improvised; it's an effort of centuries.

I think "work" as a noun works perfectly fine there, as in "works of art".
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