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Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

theintercept.com

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Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#171

Post by 11thEarlOfMar »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #166
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legality is, in general, a matter of fact. The legality or constitutionality of a matter is determined in the courts. Morality is a matter of opinion, and, I believe, pretty much independent of legality. That means a law can be both immoral and legal, depending on your perspective. Policing technology is a constantly evolving marketplace and technologies that strike some as immoral frequently are tested in court wher…

>Legality is, in general, a matter of fact. The legality or constitutionality of a matter is determined in the courts This makes absolutely no sense. If it is a matter of fact, it should be independently provable not require courts to decide. Legality is supposed to be the public's opinion of the morality of an action, but in reality it is the ruling class' opinion of how the action impacts them. An employee knowingl…

> Legality is supposed to be the public's opinion of the morality of an action

Does that mean that all legal acts are also moral?

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#172

Post by 01100011 »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #6

Anyone who cared (for either personal or professional reasons) has been leaving their phone at home for probably close to a decade now.

Absence of normal phone activity which correlates with prohibited activities can also arouse suspicion. If I wanted to prevent the spooks from thinking I was away from my phone, I'd probably use some sort of robot to move the phone around and randomly unlock it using a fake fingerprint. If you do that, your phone actually turns into an alibi, placing you somewhere other than where you actually are.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#173

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

omarchowdhury wrote: post #117
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #34

Pro-tip: If you want fairly good OPSEC when going to a protest, get a burner Android phone, put it on airplane mode with WIFI only. Then purchase a couple of Comcast / Xfiniti logins off the web, and use those to connect to "xfiniti-wifi" hotspots. Most cities have them, the speeds are fairly decent too. We're truly living in the panopticon

Are these logins legally purchasable or is there some black/grey market for them?

Sure, it comes "free" with every Xfinity internet plan. Ideally you would "borrow" someone else's account for a while.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#174

Post by Sudophysics »

Mirioron wrote: post #84
BelleOfTheBall wrote: post #31

I remember this being described in Bruce Schneier's book. When I first read it, I was terrified. Now, seeing them in action, I'm closer to dejected. Most methods of avoiding them aren't easy or practical enough to be used by the layman, hell, most laymen don't even know what stingrays are. These are incredibly tough to protect against on a mass scale.

What happens when they are used in countries with fewer protections to individuals than the US?

Well, use your imagination duh.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#175

Post by ddeck »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #93
zamadatix wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since Android 9 there is an option to use randomized MACs for the actual connection (not just probing).

Most folks won't be aware of an option unless it is default.

The defaults changed in Android 10:

[Starting] In Android 10, MAC randomization is enabled by default for client mode, SoftAp, and Wi-Fi Direct.

https://source.android.com/devices/tech/connect/wifi-mac-ran...

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#176

Post by seebetter »

jdefr89 wrote: post #19

Hey. Someone who briefly worked on the Stingray team here. I left the company that develops the stingray (who’s name is mentioned in the article but I shall not say it) because I didn’t feel comfortable with the ethics of how it could potentially be easily abused without legal permission and/or repercussion. I fear these technologies will become more commonly used against Americans by low level law enforcement withou…

Cue Inferior Construction.

"A low level enforcement employee used unauthorized tools to locate our suspect. He has been reprimanded. However, once we surveilled the suspect we had the evidence to prove he was guilty unrelated to any prior cause. Case closed."

Mistakes were made but lies were never told.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#177

Post by Spooky23 »

fulafel wrote: post #62
seniorsassycat wrote: post #14

> stingrays can force phones to downgrade to 2G, a less secure protocol, and tell the phone to use either no encryption or use a weak encryption that can be cracked. Can android, iOS, or an open phone os prevent 2g communication?

They could but they don't, and it's been known all along that these downgrade attacks are devastating to security and very practical. Complicity?

Nah. People use legacy devices for a long time. The 2G modem installed in 2006 to control a highway sign works just fine, and won’t get touched until they turn it off.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#178

Post by x3n0ph3n3 »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #166
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legality is, in general, a matter of fact. The legality or constitutionality of a matter is determined in the courts. Morality is a matter of opinion, and, I believe, pretty much independent of legality. That means a law can be both immoral and legal, depending on your perspective. Policing technology is a constantly evolving marketplace and technologies that strike some as immoral frequently are tested in court wher…

>Legality is, in general, a matter of fact. The legality or constitutionality of a matter is determined in the courts This makes absolutely no sense. If it is a matter of fact, it should be independently provable not require courts to decide. Legality is supposed to be the public's opinion of the morality of an action, but in reality it is the ruling class' opinion of how the action impacts them. An employee knowingl…

> This makes absolutely no sense. If it is a matter of fact, it should be independently provable not require courts to decide.

It makes plenty of sense once you realize that it's a fact that if a court decides something is illegal, the government may use its monopoly of force to enforce it. Don't confuse scientific fact with legal fact. Also don't confuse legal fact with a court's opinion as to whether the law was actually violated.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#179

Post by rsync »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #34

Pro-tip: If you want fairly good OPSEC when going to a protest, get a burner Android phone, put it on airplane mode with WIFI only. Then purchase a couple of Comcast / Xfiniti logins off the web, and use those to connect to "xfiniti-wifi" hotspots. Most cities have them, the speeds are fairly decent too. We're truly living in the panopticon

"Pro-tip: If you want fairly good OPSEC when going to a protest, get a burner Android phone, put it on airplane mode with WIFI only."

I don't have a use for such a thing, but if I did, I think I would get an Apple iPod touch which has no cellular capabilities at all ...

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#180

Post by [deleted] »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #171
boomboomsubban wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Legality is, in general, a matter of fact. The legality or constitutionality of a matter is determined in the courts This makes absolutely no sense. If it is a matter of fact, it should be independently provable not require courts to decide. Legality is supposed to be the public's opinion of the morality of an action, but in reality it is the ruling class' opinion of how the action impacts them. An employee knowingl…

> Legality is supposed to be the public's opinion of the morality of an action Does that mean that all legal acts are also moral?

[deleted]
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