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ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

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Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#171

Post by StavrosK »

_ink_ wrote: post #67

Is there a similar keyboard in the $100 range? I do not need changeable keyswitches or an ARM processor in my keyboard. Currently I have the Microsoft natural ergonomic keyboard 4000 and I am quite happy with that. I just do not need a num block and think a split keyboard is easier for travelling. Are there any good split keyboards with hand rests in the $100 range?

You do need an ARM processor, though. It's fantastic to be able to remap the keys to anything you like. I didn't think I'd need it until I tried it, but now I can't live without it.

I wonder if you could put an Arduino into the MS Sculpt and get the best of both worlds. Or maybe you could make an Arduino with a USB port and just have it remap keys on the fly.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#172

Post by phaus »

alxlu wrote: post #143
phaus wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Kinesis is based on sound research. The Maltrons have a lot of keys positioned in ways that add nothing to ergonomics. Maltron also makes the claim that you can type 80 wpm with their 1 handed keyboard but there seems to be no publicly available evidence of anyone getting anywhere near that fast. I agree its pretty easy to switch back and forth between different split keyboards and to traditional keyboards. I use…

I tried to use one for months before giving up because I felt it was too big. I mostly enjoyed typing in the key wells, but I ended up getting thumb pain because of how much I had to stretch my hand in order to reach the enter/backspace/modifier keys.

What do you use now?

The Dactyl was partly modeled after the Kinesis. It has the key wells and a curved thumb cluster. Still, the thumb cluster isn't perfect and its hard for most people to reach all of the keys.

However, the Dactyl Manuform keeps the amazing key wells and has a completely redesigned thumb cluster.

Its also designed to be easily customizable. There are versions with 2,3,4,5 and 6 keys per thumb cluster. Unlike the original Dactyl, the Ergodox, and the Kinesis, I have no problems at all using all 6 keys per thumb cluster on the Dactyl Manuform. IMO its the best split keyboard unless you want to go for something smaller and use layers to gain access to more keys.

Unfortunately if you can't 3d print the case yourself and hand-wire it, its pretty expensive to acquire one. I just built mine recently and it almost instantly replaced my Ergodox-EZ as my favorite keyboard.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#173

Post by tra3 »

genpfault wrote: post #170
tom_ wrote: post #76

I wish people would just copy the MS Natural Ergonomic 4000, but with better keyswitches. As things stand, every split keyboard with nice keyswitches has a different layout from every other, which is odd, considering how much this type of device relies on muscle memory to work. (Also, most of them miss one or more of F keys, symmetrical meta keys, standard navigation cluster layout, volume buttons - it's like they wa…

> I wish people would just copy the MS Natural Ergonomic 4000, but with better keyswitches. Same, but for the Natural Keyboard Pro[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_ergonomic_keyboards#...

Still got it attached to my server box. Other than comfort being able to pop it in the dishwasher for deep cleaning is my fav feature.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#174

Post by edanm »

I recently bought and Ergodox-EZ, after previously getting my first mechanical keyboard (the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard, which I love).

I'm not a huge fan of it. So far, it seems like it's been a lot of work relearning habits, for little gain.

But oddly enough, my biggest gripe with the Ergodox isn't something I've heard people complain about - the lack of an extra column of keys on the right part. Basically, on a normal keyboard, to the right of the "l" key, you've got another 3 keys - a ;, a ', and the enter key. They're all pretty important.

But on the Ergodox, you only have 2 more keys. Meaning you either have to move the return key to somewhere else, or move the "'" key somewhere else. Both of them break tons of muscle memory, and for no real benefit IMO.

In addition, the lack of that extra column means that symbols like [], like -=, etc can't be in their regular locations. Obviously, as a programmer, these are all keys I use a lot.

I don't know that much about mechanical keyboards, but I really don't get why this choice was made. It seems like a completely self-own here, making it so much harder to get used to this keyboard.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#175

Post by steveklabnik »

fluffything wrote: post #144
steveklabnik wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, this is 100% speculation, but.... Specifically, this has a STM32F303xC. Looks like (depending on quantity, of course), you're looking at $3 to $5. Their other well-known keyboard, the Ergodox EZ, uses an ATMEGA32U4-AU. It's also $3 or $4 on Mouser. I don't know what the actual BOM looks like in total, but it seems like this isn't significantly different in price? Especially at the likely volumes here? I'm still n…

Thanks, this is an interesting discussion. I thought the arms would be much more expensive: https://www.reddit.com/r/olkb/comments/6wt6mi/evaluating_mcu...

Nice, thanks for that link!

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#176

Post by cgh »

tom_ wrote: post #76

I wish people would just copy the MS Natural Ergonomic 4000, but with better keyswitches. As things stand, every split keyboard with nice keyswitches has a different layout from every other, which is odd, considering how much this type of device relies on muscle memory to work. (Also, most of them miss one or more of F keys, symmetrical meta keys, standard navigation cluster layout, volume buttons - it's like they wa…

Agreed, that keyboard minus the numeric keypad and equipped with Cherry Blue switches is basically my dream keyboard. I use a Filco Majestouch 2 and it's great but I prefer the MS keyboard's ergo layout for sure.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#179

Post by alxlu »

phaus wrote: post #172
alxlu wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to use one for months before giving up because I felt it was too big. I mostly enjoyed typing in the key wells, but I ended up getting thumb pain because of how much I had to stretch my hand in order to reach the enter/backspace/modifier keys.

What do you use now? The Dactyl was partly modeled after the Kinesis. It has the key wells and a curved thumb cluster. Still, the thumb cluster isn't perfect and its hard for most people to reach all of the keys. However, the Dactyl Manuform keeps the amazing key wells and has a completely redesigned thumb cluster. Its also designed to be easily customizable. There are versions with 2,3,4,5 and 6 keys per thumb clust…

I ended up going with the Logitech ergonomic keyboard. It’s honestly not that different than a regular keyboard but it does the job.

Thanks for letting me know about dactyl though! For some reason that one flew under my radar. I guess I kinda gave up spending time looking for a perfect solution after I decided the Kinesis wasn’t working for me, but it looks like something that might work for me.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#180

Post by nico_h »

nextos wrote: post #92
tom_ wrote: post #76

I wish people would just copy the MS Natural Ergonomic 4000, but with better keyswitches. As things stand, every split keyboard with nice keyswitches has a different layout from every other, which is odd, considering how much this type of device relies on muscle memory to work. (Also, most of them miss one or more of F keys, symmetrical meta keys, standard navigation cluster layout, volume buttons - it's like they wa…

I love mechanical keyboards. My favorite switch is ALPS. But IMHO, the most ergonomic switches are low-travel ones. They increase my typing speed, reduce latency and make long sessions effortless. Luckily, low-travel versions of many good quality keyboard switches are being produced and developed more often now to cater the gaming market. For a simple, readily available option, I find the Apple Magic Keyboard more th…

for low profile mech keyboard in traditional arrangement, there is the keychron.

For low profile switches there is the Kailh Choc family, though there is a limited choice of caps.

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