Written communication is remote work super power • Hacker News Board

Re: Written communication is remote work super power

#171

Post by VectorLock » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #110

VectorLock wrote: post #70

I've noticed the biggest difference between junior developers and more experienced individuals is their written communication abilities. This has led me down the path of trying to find resources to help teach communications to those that I mentor but since this isn't my area of expertise (teaching communications) I'd love if anybody had resources to share.

I'm not an expert on teaching communications but I personally don't believe we need to be an expert to figure out how people can increase their communications skills. Its like anything else. They have to practice, and get correction when they do something wrong. A big part of it is habit or level of effort. Force them to read books. Maybe something fun like a genre of novel that they like. Because the fundamental lev…

Practices is great and all, thats how I learned, but I'd know there have to be resources out there to help people learn beyond simply "figure it out as you go."

Re: Written communication is remote work super power

#172

Post by EvanAnderson » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 12:01 AM UTC

core-questions wrote: post #170

EvanAnderson wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that some people specifically see verbal communication's undocumented-by-default nature as a feature. When I was younger I found that idea very offensive. I considered people who held that viewpoint to be suspect (engaging in political machinations, or using fluid recollections of conversations to their advantage). I still think there's a grain of truth to my suspicions, but I've learned to recogniz…

> I've learned to recognize that there are acceptable reasons for undocumented conversations. It seems bizarre to me that one could think otherwise. Unless you meant but did not specify that you're only speaking of line-of-business workplace communication, of course. Otherwise, I find it hard to believe you could forge any actual relationships with people if you try to have a record for everything.

I do mean in a business context. I still feel like a lot of business value fails to be captured when important decisions are made in an undocumented medium. The context and supporting facts associated with a decision are often just as important as the decision itself.

Re: Written communication is remote work super power

#173

Post by jblarneyforward » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 12:19 AM UTC

ivanovb wrote: post #134

a_e_k wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As the listener, before responding, it's a good habit to say "This is what I understand about your proposal" and proceed to summarize and give the original speaker an opportunity to correct you. I find a practice like this is also helpful for following up after a meeting. For meetings that warrant my taking notes, I like to type them up immediately afterwards, send them out to the other attendees, and solicit corre…

I've been doing the same for the past 10+ years. The problem that I found with it, is that a recurring receiver (let's say a client) will eventually start trusting your minutes so much that they don't even bother to read them and just answer with 'Looks good' and basically you lose the power of minutes. To counter this, recently I've been trying to insert one wrong bullet point from the beginning, making the receiver…

That last point is pretty hilarious!

I find writing up the minutes during the meeting and distilling to “are these the most important points?” works to grab folks’ attention.

Re: Written communication is remote work super power

#174

Post by pdfernhout » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 1:22 AM UTC

gregmac wrote: post #90

jackjeff wrote: post #9

Async communication is suitable to resolve some kind of issues. But it has two drawbacks: participants need to be competent at writing and reading prose (it’s harder than it sounds) and even with the best of care your ideas can easily be misinterpreted resulting in the loss of an async cycle. For problems which are not well defined, and where a lot of decisions need to be taken, especially when they verge toward the…

> resulting in the loss of an async cycle. This is great way to think about this, thanks. Depending on the team and communication channel, the cycle time can be hours or even a day (not including weekends), and I think avoiding extra cycles has a significant impact on the way people communicate, whether they realize it or not. > For problems which are not well defined, and where a lot of decisions need to be taken, e…

You might find Dialogue Mapping using IBIS another useful tool in dealing with disagreements and wicked problems. http://cognexus.org/id41.htm

Re: Written communication is remote work super power

#175

Post by ivankolev » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 1:37 AM UTC

jackjeff wrote: post #9

Async communication is suitable to resolve some kind of issues. But it has two drawbacks: participants need to be competent at writing and reading prose (it’s harder than it sounds) and even with the best of care your ideas can easily be misinterpreted resulting in the loss of an async cycle. For problems which are not well defined, and where a lot of decisions need to be taken, especially when they verge toward the…

Kudos for the eloquent put! I will quote your post next time this is brought up at my office.

Re: Written communication is remote work super power

#176

Post by tonyedgecombe » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

QuantumYeti wrote: post #135

freedomben wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man, I hear you. The amount of sad encounters (especially lately) that I've had as a result of people not understanding what I'm saying because they don't actually read what I wrote are enraging. I almost quit one client over it because their IT guy is the worst. He will decide ahead of time what your email probably says, and that's what he reads into it even if I wrote the opposite. I try to blame myself first fo…

I'm just starting to dip my toes back into the freelance web development world, after deciding indie game development wasn't for me. My main problem with clients has always been 1) They don't really know what they want, beyond "a website", and 2) The reading comprehension of pretty much everyone I interact with is surprisingly low. I've mostly dealt with small-business owners, whose personalities seem to veer towards…

I see similar issues with support emails. One thing I learnt is to never ask more than one question in an email as only the first question gets answered.

I’m sure it has been getting worse over time. I’m at the stage where I am surprised when I receive a coherent request.

Probably the most common question is “I tried you software, it don’t work”.

Re: Written communication is remote work super power

#177

Post by cutemonster » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 4:53 PM UTC

Jon_Lowtek wrote: post #150

a_e_k wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As the listener, before responding, it's a good habit to say "This is what I understand about your proposal" and proceed to summarize and give the original speaker an opportunity to correct you. I find a practice like this is also helpful for following up after a meeting. For meetings that warrant my taking notes, I like to type them up immediately afterwards, send them out to the other attendees, and solicit corre…

I had managers -do-this- (repeat what they understood as the key element) in meetings and thought of it as a very annoying waste of time. With five people in the room, assuming you do, on average, two rounds per agenda item, there are nine repetitions.

Many people -- everyone? -- repeat what was said? Not sure I follow

Re: Written communication is remote work super power

#178

Post by cutemonster » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

freedomben wrote: post #61

duxup wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently, I was so frustrated with some folks poor reading comprehension that I was thinking about an imaginary communication system that would allow for decision making where there were some rules: - No responding from mobile devices. The poor response rate is just too high. - The reader is quizzed on the the contents of the communication before they can respond (randomly generated quizzes might be amusing). - The r…

Oh man, I hear you. The amount of sad encounters (especially lately) that I've had as a result of people not understanding what I'm saying because they don't actually read what I wrote are enraging. I almost quit one client over it because their IT guy is the worst. He will decide ahead of time what your email probably says, and that's what he reads into it even if I wrote the opposite. I try to blame myself first fo…

> they don't actually read what I wrote

How long are those texts?

What about trying a maybe reverse text order? Start with: "do this, that, that. Because ..."? The actions first? I'm guessing

Re: Written communication is remote work super power

#179

Post by cutemonster » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 6:51 PM UTC

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #33

duxup wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently, I was so frustrated with some folks poor reading comprehension that I was thinking about an imaginary communication system that would allow for decision making where there were some rules: - No responding from mobile devices. The poor response rate is just too high. - The reader is quizzed on the the contents of the communication before they can respond (randomly generated quizzes might be amusing). - The r…

FWIW, it doesn't have to be a "new communication channel", you just documented some best practices for email. > No responding from mobile devices. The poor response rate is just too high. If something was left implicit or de facto re-ask for it to be explicit or de jure. > The reader is quizzed on the the contents of the communication before they can respond (randomly generated quizzes might be amusing). > The reader…

So, don't end the email with "Does everyone approve?"

Start with "Unless you disagree, I'll ..." Instead :)

Re: Written communication is remote work super power

#180

Post by cutemonster » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 6:57 PM UTC

dkersten wrote: post #149

ec109685 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why Amazon takes the first 20 minutes as time for reading their written communication before big decisions.

I hate this approach (even more so when I was involved in writing the written communication) because it usually turns into idly waiting for others to finish reading, while I get distracted, bored and just plain could be doing something more productive. I understand the concept and some people must find it useful and valuable, but I’ve personally never got anything of value out of it other than making sure everyone ha…

What about everyone reading the material before the meeting, and a computer aided individual quiz to find out if they did?

Unless (all for the meeting really important ppl did), meeting cancelled