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How Much Should You Pay Your Engineers to Ensure They Stick Around?

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171–180 of 349 posts

Re: How Much Should You Pay Your Engineers to Ensure They Stick Around?

#171
Good article on an important topic. I would like to address what I perceive as assumptions in the perspective. We really need to get away from this idea that salaries are these paternalistic expressions of fairness. We earn money from providing value.

If you want people to stay, your options are to give them money, prestige, or stability.

- Money includes salary, bonus, commissions and contingent comp, stock options and perks and even vacation time.

- Prestige is conferences, publications, exposure to high profile brand clients and stakeholders, airline points hotel and travel rewards, charity sponsorship and matching, committee memberships, media and public facing representation, and leadership options.

- Stability includes things like investing in training, giving them headcount, bringing them into the strategic fold, partnerships, responsibility for key client or stakeholder relationships, etc.

Evaluate your total comp using the triad of Money, Stability, Prestige. Chances are you are weighted toward one, and there is a role out there with a different balance. I think HR salary bands are a wishfull opposite of market rates, and personally I think they're stupid for any company that is still growing and not just optimizing an established long term revenue stream. If you are a bank or institution, sure, but your entire business is an optimization problem not a growth problem. If there is any upside volatility in your revenue and you are making something new that people want, pay for value, because I'd argue you can't afford not to.

I've watched companies lose key engineers that delayed major product releases over a $10-20k salary bump while flying their marginalized director of special projects around in business class, and my conclusion is that compensation is arbitrary and a negotiations power game. Don't spend too much time reasoning about it.

The companies that retain people are the ones who figure out the Stability and Prestige elements of the triad.

Re: How Much Should You Pay Your Engineers to Ensure They Stick Around?

#173
post #44

The large UK broadcaster I work for is having to make large amounts of savings. They've decided that they don't like paying for slack (for £10 per user per month), and instead are going to force everyone to use MS Teams. Since 95% of people have been working from home (and no plans for most to go back this year), they won't allow people to take unused monitors back because they might end up lost. These are £80 monito…

Saving £1.6 million/month isn't nickel-and-diming. That's almost £20 million/annually, which is more than many companies make.

As for the monitors, that may be COVID19 related. If the office is locked up, there are almost always physical/security procedures that must be followed in order to allow non-essential staff into the office...and that doesn't include any cleaning or sanitation that might be required by any COVID19 rules. This means that you need to have someone physically come to the office to open it up. On top of that, you need someone knowledgeable about the hardware (i.e., IT) to come in to make sure any employee taking a monitor home doesn't mess up anyone else's setup.

So you're risking exposing at least two lower-paid employees to COVID19 for the convenience of one higher-paid employee who could just buy his own goddamn monitor for £80 if he cares about the screen real estate that much.

Re: How Much Should You Pay Your Engineers to Ensure They Stick Around?

#174
post #61

There's a style of management I encounter still that is very unsupportive of it's employees. Untrusting, thinking they're always out to leave just to make more money. It's interesting because the engineers I know tend to be pretty altruistic people and I won't say they don't care about money but it's not their leading factor in employment (I definitely know the other spectrum as well so don't think I'm ignoring that)…

Hah. Seems like this is not as uncommon as I thought. My senior had her convention request denied by company while multiple leadership folk were flown over there. She got pissed and paid for her own access/flight. She clearly met a lot of people there. Maybe that is what management is most scared of. She already almost left once.

Re: How Much Should You Pay Your Engineers to Ensure They Stick Around?

#175
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine it has to do with avoiding resentment within the team. Folk don't share their starting compensation, but they sometimes share their raise percentage. If they give one person a big raise, they have to give others a big raise too, or suffer a morale hit. Also, from a beancounter perspective, there's no reason to pay more than needed for something. As long as folk aren't quitting, they are paying you enough. I…

Plenty of folks these days are sharing both their starting and current compensations, both internally and externally. I (personally) believe it's super healthy to do.

I've been at companies with a culture of compensation transparency and companies with a culture of opacity. Anecdotally, the transparent workplaces had relatively high occurrences of drama and morale problems centered around structured performance evaluations, while the opaque workplaces were more laid back and focused on direct feedback and mentorship.

Re: How Much Should You Pay Your Engineers to Ensure They Stick Around?

#176
post #62

I just want a straight answer from someone who knows more than me. How come every time I switch jobs I get a 30-40% raise, but at any one company I never get more than a 1-3% raise each year, no matter the growth of productivity and responsibility. There's obviously some kind of prisoner's dilemma-like iterated game that reaches that Nash equilibrium, and I'm trying to figure out what it is exactly. I would have love…

Usually when you're hiring you're trying to solve a critical business need. A pay raise to a legacy employee doesn't get you more productivity.

Usually when an employee leaves it means you have to find somebody else anyway, so that point is not valid.

Re: How Much Should You Pay Your Engineers to Ensure They Stick Around?

#177
I've worked for about 7 different companies over 15 years and at each of those places I've seen a ton of engineers come and go. Most of the time, the reason they leave is one of three things: got fired, got laid off, or was pushed out. So, if you want your engineers to stick around, you gotta find out why so many of them are being laid off or pushed out and prevent that from happening. That's where you'll get the most bang for your buck.

Engineers don't just leave for no reason. They leave because they're either forced out or there's something that really sucks about the company: most of the time it's the work life balance that really sucks.

Re: How Much Should You Pay Your Engineers to Ensure They Stick Around?

#178
post #62

I just want a straight answer from someone who knows more than me. How come every time I switch jobs I get a 30-40% raise, but at any one company I never get more than a 1-3% raise each year, no matter the growth of productivity and responsibility. There's obviously some kind of prisoner's dilemma-like iterated game that reaches that Nash equilibrium, and I'm trying to figure out what it is exactly. I would have love…

I've heard from a lot of people at certain companies who know that if they want a certain salary bump, they need to leave for a year or two and come back. So if you're still interested in your first organization, don't discount going back there. Generally, it's way easier to get hired the second time as you're a known commodity, and assuming you can demonstrate your skill improvement over that time period, you can ge…

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Re: How Much Should You Pay Your Engineers to Ensure They Stick Around?

#179
post #103
post #62

I just want a straight answer from someone who knows more than me. How come every time I switch jobs I get a 30-40% raise, but at any one company I never get more than a 1-3% raise each year, no matter the growth of productivity and responsibility. There's obviously some kind of prisoner's dilemma-like iterated game that reaches that Nash equilibrium, and I'm trying to figure out what it is exactly. I would have love…

Outside of HR pay band constraints, I’ve often wondered if there’s some psychological anchoring at play [1]. No matter how many more duties you take on, your monetary value may be heavily anchored by what you were previously paid. However, a new employer doesn’t have access to this information so they can make a more objective determination of worth without being biased by this pay anchoring aspect. [1] https://en.m.…

Absolutely. This.
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