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macOS in QEMU in Docker

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Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#171

Post by mindfulhack »

hunter2_ wrote: post #156
mindfulhack wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL either, and also I only read that PDF for a minute, but: maybe the Apple firmware running on the motherboard, a T2 chip etc, can satisfy the requirement that it is a computer "already running the Apple Software", even with Linux as the host OS. I think "the Apple Software" carries broad meaning in that agreement (and not very exclusive in its definition), e.g. clause 1: "The Apple software (including Boot ROM c…

The definition is broad (and self-referential, oddly): The "Apple software" is defined as "The Apple software (including Boot ROM code), any third party software, documentation, interfaces, content, fonts and any data accompanying this License" If a subset such as "Boot ROM code" on the VM host was sufficient to allow for using "Apple software" beyond said subset in VM guests, then any other subset (such as "fonts")…

Upon second look, it would seem that the spirit of what they mean by "the Apple Software" is 'the whole set of standard Apple software (that comes pre-installed on the Apple machine'.

But actually, even more strongly in favour of interpreting that they don't specifically license macOS for use on a Linux host via their agreement, is the syntax of 2.B.iii itself (italicisation for emphasis):

> [you are granted a license] to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software"

Their clear syntax of repeating "the Apple Software" in the context of both guest and host environment indicates that what is used virtually must also be used on the host.

Additionally, you probably couldn't get out of it by dual booting with Linux and saying that 'aha, see, I have mac running on the host machine I'm fine', the grammar of the words "that is already running" indicates that macOS must be running while using macOS as a guest, under their license.

I can't imagine any serious legal implications that really matter apart from to major corporation making major money off virtualising macOS somehow. To anyone else or any other angle relating to it, I don't think there's any worry whatsoever. It appears the Hackintosh community hasn't been sued into oblivion...

Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#172

Post by fulafel »

mister_hn wrote: post #170
fulafel wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KVM will be available if you run Docker natively on your laptop, or if your docker-on-VM setup supports nested virtualization - I think these are pretty common setups?

yes, you can do nested KVM virtualizations, you need to export specific CPU flags

You can run inside any hypervisor that supports nested virtualization (eg hyper-v, vmware esxi, etc in addition to kvm).

Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#173

Post by loxias »

cercatrova wrote: post #19

I just want a good CI/CD system for macOS to build iOS apps without needing to buy a farm of Mac Minis, or even buy a Mac, is that too much to ask?

I built a PoC of this before, and as far as I can tell, entirely legally.

End goal was building iOS apps w/o any mac hardware. Using some open source patches to clang, libimobiledevice, and a whole bunch of other tools, I was able to write an iOS app in "good ole C in emacs" on my linux laptop, cross compile it for the iPhone, and even code sign, upload and run it on the phone.

This was several years ago. If offered as a hosted service, do you really think anyone would pay for it enough to make it worth my while to code up and polish?

EDIT: HAH! I forgot I said all this the last time this topic came up 2 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17763855

Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#174

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

codemusings wrote: post #73
benbristow wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also £5,499.00 in the UK (just under $7k USD). Not exactly ideal for hobbyists.

And that's before the wheels.

But those wheels are the real marvel of precise engineering! You could never experience such a smooth roll before.

Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#175

Post by dahfizz »

Leherenn wrote: post #147
dahfizz wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered why apple gets a pass on the kinds of anti competitive suits brought against google. Google gets fined Billions of dollars for preloading a web browser in Android, but it's fine for apple to completely monopolize their hardware and software ecosystems.

As far as I know, it's because they do not have partners. Chromium is competing with Samsung internet and others on Android, because several companies sell Android. So it's not fine for Google to force the choice. Apple is not competing with anyone else on iOS, you don't have a choice. As long as iOS does not have a monopoly in smartphones, they're in the clear.

Doesn't that seem a bit backwards? Google faces anticompetitive scrutiny because they created an open(ish) platform that others can compete on. But Apple goes all in on a walled garden where nobody even has the opportunity to compete with them. Doesn't that feel anticompetitive?

I'm certainly no friend of Google and I'm not losing sleep over them getting fined. But it seems that Apple is just as much if not more anti competitive and anti consumer, but they get a pass because of what feels like a loophole.

Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#176

Post by dahfizz »

kogepathic wrote: post #169
dahfizz wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So if someone has a headless OS X contraption on offer, I want to hear some more about it. This project relies on OSX-KVM, which is a thing that already exists. The dockerization of that project (what this post is about) is a gimmick as described by GP.

I was so excited when I read: > This Dockerfile automates the installation of OSX-KVM inside a docker container. Except it automates the fetching of the macOS installation media and launching qemu, which is exactly what OSX-KVM already does. [1] This project does nothing additional to automate the actual installation of macOS inside the VM. I wish Apple supported installation automation like Microsoft does with syspr…

> The best I've found is Arduino USB devices that pretend to be a keyboard and mouse to manually advance the installer, which is super lame "automation".

Definitely not great as an actual process, but this sounds like a super cool project!

Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#177

Post by xaduha »

kogepathic wrote: post #169
dahfizz wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So if someone has a headless OS X contraption on offer, I want to hear some more about it. This project relies on OSX-KVM, which is a thing that already exists. The dockerization of that project (what this post is about) is a gimmick as described by GP.

I was so excited when I read: > This Dockerfile automates the installation of OSX-KVM inside a docker container. Except it automates the fetching of the macOS installation media and launching qemu, which is exactly what OSX-KVM already does. [1] This project does nothing additional to automate the actual installation of macOS inside the VM. I wish Apple supported installation automation like Microsoft does with syspr…

> This project does nothing additional to automate the actual installation of macOS inside the VM.

This one does https://github.com/myspaghetti/macos-virtualbox

Not fully, not perfectly, but does. It periodically asks you to press enter and wait.

Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#179

Post by hinkley »

dahfizz wrote: post #107
hinkley wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the hammer problem because management and IT have locked up all of the other tools , so you're damned right I'm gonna try to use the hammer. Spooling up a docker image is low friction at a lot of places. Doing anything else can take an act of Congress.

> Doing anything else can take an act of Congress. Does fiddling with BIOS parameters and installing kernel modules fall into "anything else"? Because this project doesn't work until you've done that on your docker host.

Not in this case, but in qayxc's more general statement.

Re: macOS in QEMU in Docker

#180

Post by wadkar »

kogepathic wrote: post #169
dahfizz wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So if someone has a headless OS X contraption on offer, I want to hear some more about it. This project relies on OSX-KVM, which is a thing that already exists. The dockerization of that project (what this post is about) is a gimmick as described by GP.

I was so excited when I read: > This Dockerfile automates the installation of OSX-KVM inside a docker container. Except it automates the fetching of the macOS installation media and launching qemu, which is exactly what OSX-KVM already does. [1] This project does nothing additional to automate the actual installation of macOS inside the VM. I wish Apple supported installation automation like Microsoft does with syspr…

I don’t see any requirement for Apple to provide such functionality. This is simply because all Apple devices come with an OS preinstalled.

And you have tools like Jamf for any enterprise fleet management needs

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