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Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

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Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#171

Post by luckylion »

Apocryphon wrote: post #169
luckylion wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company aggregates the individual contributions and makes them stable to the outside. A union would make workers more stable when interfacing with the company: you pay everyone the same, you get the same amount of hours, you don't negotiate with individuals but with union representatives etc. That's not necessarily desirable for somebody that currently has a compensation package that's far above the average. I've…

> That's not necessarily desirable for somebody that currently has a compensation package that's far above the average. That doesn't happen in the SAG. Talent are expected to be paid a floor, but no ceiling is mandated. There's certainly stories in the news all of the time about incredible contracts getting signed by big stars. https://www.wrapbook.com/essential-guide-sag-rates/ > you don't get the negative side-effe…

> Why, if tech is supposed to be about innovation, must a union representing its workers must necessarily be tethered to the same faults as older institutions?

I don't really follow that tech is about innovation, but that aside: I'm not saying a union would have be the same as all the other unions, I'm asking why it wouldn't and how to ensure that.

The SAG is interesting, but I don't know whether it's very comparable to tech. I'm not anti-union, but I wouldn't join a union, I work too closely with them to believe that it's in my personal best interest. For the average (non-tech) worker, that's different, they'll most likely benefit. But they're also in a very different position than tech people, with very different hiring markets.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#172

Post by idlewords »

buboard wrote: post #149
idlewords wrote: post #5

Note that this so-called walkout consists of people already at home taking a personal day and changing their autoreply email.

thanks, i always wondered how these work. so people would normally walk out of the office, and go home? Do they walk down the stairs instead of taking an elevator? How far out do they walk? What if it's raining out? Would they answer emails before leaving? would they leave after lunch? do they leave all together? Do they use corporate buses to go home? I feel these are important subtleties

The key point is that a typical walkout is a public act where you leave work and then demonstrate. It is a situation where people can see you and where you can see the other people walking out with you. You can even do things like picket or articulate demands! This is... not that.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#173

Post by jonnypotty »

ditonal wrote: post #3

Walkouts will achieve nothing, but the tragic part of the story is Silicon Valley engineers are sitting on a massive amount of power to affect real change IF they collectively organize, which they have various irrational hang ups about doing. Zuckerberg does not care if 50% of his engineers skip a video meeting. He would greatly care if he found out 50%+ of his SREs were going on strike. But the word union is stigmat…

You can't have a union of silicon valley engineers who weild power by deciding what is and isn't acceptable to say online.

The problem is that the judgement is to do with perceived 'impact'. No normal person is going to be prevented from saying 'when the looting starts the shooting starts', you prevent trump from saying this because its 'dangerous'. The situation is awful. Its a cluster fuck of people with too much power welding it in unprincipled ways.

Fb employees walking out in some display of outrage at the companies behaviour when what they should ACTUALLY do is NOT WORK FOR FACEBOOK I don't understand. These are not impoverished coal miners with no choice where to work. Get a different job you idiots. Stop working for an obviously not ethical company. You're part of the problem, don't pretend to be virtuous by 'protesting', you're achieving nothing apart from making yourself look stupid.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#174

Post by [deleted] »

edoceo wrote: post #164
Kiro wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not just sacrificing your business. If what you wish for would happen you would be placed in front of an execution squad.

False. Not all business owners are bourgeoisie against which the communist proletarians struggle. In the USA for example most businesses are owned by other proletarians.

[deleted]

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#175

Post by Kiro »

edoceo wrote: post #164
Kiro wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not just sacrificing your business. If what you wish for would happen you would be placed in front of an execution squad.

False. Not all business owners are bourgeoisie against which the communist proletarians struggle. In the USA for example most businesses are owned by other proletarians.

Everyone will say they supported the revolution when standing in front of a firing squad.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#176

Post by renewiltord »

Apocryphon wrote: post #156
renewiltord wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with building a powerful weapon is that one day the weapon may be trained on you. Of course it isn't dangerous when it's just parts. But one day, when you've finished building it, someone will take possession of the weapon, and you won't control where they point it. Jeremy Corbyn has taught me that closing borders and leftist sympathies are not in opposition. And what will you do when that weapon is train…

Jeremy Corbyn lost the election, his chance for higher political power is over, so your fear would seem misplaced. Furthermore, you talk abstractions of political power (ignoring the fact that by participating in the forging of a weapon, you can put in the necessary safeguards and checks and balances to keep it a well-regulated arm), but fail to talk about the realities of working conditions and labor relations. By p…

He's an example to illustrate that leftist sympathies mean nothing. Not worried about Corbyn anymore, obviously, since he's a spent force.

I'm not a political wheeler-dealer. I know where I fall short and I'll be easily bypassed in any attempt to put these safeguards in (even were they possible) by people with vastly more experience and skill at this than me.

Anyway, you don't need me, or any of the 2% who are immigrants, to succeed. But go try them, see what they think, if you care. Everyone's seen USTW's Muni ads. Everyone knows that fear lying underneath them. Not a one is convinced by TWC ending up ultimately different. Think what you want if it makes you feel better. When push comes to shove, I'm sure we'll know the truth.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#177

Post by [deleted] »

logicchains wrote: post #170
bildung wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are also the reason why most other industrial countries have mandatory holidays, sick leave, parental leave and so on.

That's not a very good argument in this case because the average Silicon Valley tech worker has a better take home salary than a programmer in those countries even after accounting for education/childcare and insurance costs.

[deleted]

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#178

Post by bildung »

logicchains wrote: post #170
bildung wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are also the reason why most other industrial countries have mandatory holidays, sick leave, parental leave and so on.

That's not a very good argument in this case because the average Silicon Valley tech worker has a better take home salary than a programmer in those countries even after accounting for education/childcare and insurance costs.

Take home pay certainly isn't the metric that is improved here, but rather pay per hour. How many hours per year does a Silicon Valley tech worker work? Absolute pay e.g. in Germany is significantly less, but then the absolute hours worked in a full time job are probably 800 hours less per year than in Silicon Valley: 6 weeks of paid holiday are standard in tech here, plus e.g. 2 weeks paid sick leave because of the flu, plus 4 weeks of paid sick leave with the kids, and a work week is actually 40 hours (or less).

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#179

Post by Conan_Kudo »

Apocryphon wrote: post #113
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Policies that engineers in general truly support are rare. Many engineers - I suspect the majority - just don't feel that strongly about most causes.

Engineer distaste or at least lack of enthusiasm for open offices is near-universal. It might not be the best reason to create a union, but its prevalence is probably rooted in the lack of something like a union to tell management to back off.

Engineer who works in an open office, can confirm. Open offices suck in a large variety of ways, not the least of which my personal health has deteriorated over the years in large part because of it.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#180

Post by kthxbye123 »

ALittleLight wrote: post #51
baddox wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Television. Online and paper news. Literally beaming messages directly to the cellphones of every American.

He can and does use television now. Television takes longer to setup and doesn't reach the same people. You can't go on TV to share a one sentence thought but you can easily do that on Twitter. So long as you think there's at least one person who he reaches by social media that he wouldn't reach with traditional media, it seems you are obligated to conclude that banning him from social media would reduce his reach, o…

Who the fuck cares?
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