If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one? • Hacker News Board

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#171

Post by ugh » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 6:48 AM UTC

dman wrote: post #170

ugh wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my memory is not failing me completely I would say that lower middle class to maybe even down to slightly above the poverty level could afford some computer ten years ago. A majority could buy a computer.

I grew up in India where slightly above poverty level means an altogether different thing.

Well, ok :)

I was viewing it from an overly western perspective. Countries like India or China are especially interesting, they might be able to leapfrog certain developments in Europe and North America, i.e. take a different path altogether.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#172

Post by trotsky » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 6:50 AM UTC

rbarooah wrote: post #162

trotsky wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch 90% of the streaming video out there? Use your choice of fully functional browsers? Download and listen to Amazon MP3 store purchases? Run arbitrary software, even if it's competitive to the platform provider? Mount a usb flash drive? I'm not sure that was the list that you were looking for, but there it is. How post-PC is it really if every time you have to do something Steve Jobs might not approve of you need…

The 90% of streaming video claim is utterly false - it's at least 54% and climbing very fast. If we're going to do this, let's at least not just make stuff up. ( http://www.loopinsight.com/2010/10/27/54-of-web-video-is-now... ) The closed platform argument is perfectly valid, but has nothing to do with whether we're moving into the world of Post PC devices or not. It's pretty obvious that we're never going to get awa…

I'm going to skip most of your comments, because if you're trying to equate "download amazon mp3s" with "run (binary emulated) windows apps (built for a different cpu)" you're clearly just looking to score points for the home team.

But as far as the "at least 54% of streaming video is html5" I had to laugh. Yes, I realize you linked to someone who said it was true so it must be. I take it, though, that you don't actually try to watch web video with nothing but an html5 client - or you'd never have felt comfortable repeating that. Statistics of course can be bent, and I'm sure what they're doing is weighting for volume - and since youtube has 18 zillion videos and supports html5 that's probably at least 40% of their number right there.

However, in the real world...

MeFeedia’s index includes over 33,000 publishers including Hulu, CBS, ABC, YouTube, Vimeo, DailyMotion and others.

  Hulu: Hulu requires Flash Player 10.0.32 or higher. Please download and install the latest version of Flash Player before continuing. (Indeed, yes, you can pay $8/mo for a dedicated ipad client)
  CBS: Should work on the iPad - sadly, it only gave me: This content requires Adobe Flash Player 9. Please click here to install it.
  ABC: This content requires Adobe Flash Player - Ver 10.1. Click here to get the latest version of Flash (iPad? Download an app!)
  Youtube: It works!
  Vimeo: It works!
  Dailymotion: claims html5 support but no video plays (FAQ: Why is the video not playing? You might need to update you browser's Flash plug-in)

So OK, 33% (or maybe even 50%-66%) of their main list supporting html5 is actually pretty good - and it's only 21% below their figure. The only problem? That list is slow pitch softball, every single provider on that list publicly supports iPad content in one way or another.

It almost makes you wonder, who paid for that survey?

Check a few more...

  FOX: We're Sorry! You need to update your flash player
  NBC: The NBC video experience requires flash
  Al Jazeera: We're Sorry! You need to update your flash player
  Comedy Central: To view this movie you need the Adobe Flash Player plugin. 
  Amazon Instant Video: You do not have a supported version of Adobe Flash, a requirement for watching Amazon Instant Video
  PBS: To view the full experience of this website, please download and install Adobe Flash Player 9.
  Metacafe: Needs flash
  IMDB: In order to play this video, you must have Flash 8 or higher installed on your computer
  Yahoo Video: Yahoo! Video requires a more recent version of the Adobe Flash Player.
  etc etc etc

Obviously, I could list those for pages. I think you get my point.

All tests done with Chrome + VP8 & Opera w/ gstreamer h.264. I couldn't find my iPhone charging cable.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#173

Post by drivebyacct2 » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 6:51 AM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #169

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will cry the day that a closed ecosystem device becomes peoples' primary computing device.

Compared to the current situation, with 90%+ of the population using Windows or Mac?

Those aren't closed ecosystems. OS != ecosystem.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#174

Post by wvenable » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 6:53 AM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #147

6ren wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be another way of describing disruption (and I like it): Companies serve their customers. They improve their product along a dimension that their customers want. Equivalent to your "weakness" - as soon as their customers care about this, they work hard to fix it. If you create an alternative product for those very same customers (and for the very same use) that's not as good in that dimension, they won'…

Nice observation, I never tied Reis & Trout's explanation to disruption quite like that. They were describing a "Flanking Attack" which really fits with what you're describing quite well. And yes, the incompatibility is the key. Going back to The Innovator's Dilemma, this explains why companies become trapped by their customers: Their existing customers hate anything that addresses the drawback because it is incompat…

The Microsoft example is a good one because Apple inadvertently stumbled on the solution. At first, with the iPhone, Apple embraced the idea of the device simply being a consumer of the web without any dedicated apps[1]. That is effectively Microsoft's nightmare. However, the app store quite effectively mitigated the advantages of web and they've had an explosive growth of native apps despite the existence of a strong browser.

Microsoft lost the Internet war, not necessarily because the Internet is incompatible with desktop but because they never actually competed. Instead they tried to smother it. Honestly though, before the app store, I'm not sure anyone knew how one could compete with the web.

[1] Assuming that wasn't the strategy all along.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#175

Post by jamesbkel » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 7:21 AM UTC

jamroom wrote: post #133

l0nwlf wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding few more. - No cut-paste. - No tabs in Finder. - The missing delete key. (Backspace is renamed as delete) - The not-so-modern Terminal. (hence the wide usage of iTerm)

- Command-C / Command-V for cut and paste in OS X (if that's what you're looking for) - TotalFinder is a nice Finder replacement: http://totalfinder.binaryage.com/ - includes tabs and some other nifty features. Hope that helps a bit...

Right on, TotalFinder has solved pretty much all my remaining gripes with Finder.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#176

Post by noonespecial » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 7:26 AM UTC

recoiledsnake wrote: post #164

ryannielsen wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not 'purposefully broken', and your brother wasn't giving you the 'party line' – he was relaying a fact. To charge over USB, Apple had break the USB spec without compromising compatibility or destroying existing USB peripherals. To do that, the hardware was modified to vend more amps over the bus but only when handshaking has occurred between the attached device and the OS drivers. If you'd installed Apple's dri…

>It's not 'purposefully broken', and your brother wasn't giving you the 'party line' – he was relaying a fact. The fact is that 'some motherboards cannot supply the voltage' or is it 'it needs its own driver to charge' ? >To charge over USB, Apple had break the USB spec without compromising compatibility or destroying existing USB peripherals >If you'd installed Apple's drivers in your XP instance, things would have…

Check my comment above. It actually does charge at a slower pace as long as its off on standard USB ports. A message to that effect would be fantastic as it took me a long time to figure this out. Its almost like they wanted me to assume the only way to charge my device was with official chargers, computers, or drivers. Hmmm.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#177

Post by rbarooah » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 7:35 AM UTC

trotsky wrote: post #172

rbarooah wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 90% of streaming video claim is utterly false - it's at least 54% and climbing very fast. If we're going to do this, let's at least not just make stuff up. ( http://www.loopinsight.com/2010/10/27/54-of-web-video-is-now... ) The closed platform argument is perfectly valid, but has nothing to do with whether we're moving into the world of Post PC devices or not. It's pretty obvious that we're never going to get awa…

I'm going to skip most of your comments, because if you're trying to equate "download amazon mp3s" with "run (binary emulated) windows apps (built for a different cpu)" you're clearly just looking to score points for the home team. But as far as the "at least 54% of streaming video is html5" I had to laugh. Yes, I realize you linked to someone who said it was true so it must be. I take it, though, that you don't actu…

Why isn't weighting for volume appropriate? Sure, fewer than 54% of sites may support HTML5 video. But who cares if those sites aren't where most of the videos are?

You're trying to claim that your handpicked list of sites which deliberately avoids sites that have publicly stated support for the iPad is a better methodology? Who's looking to score one for the home team now?

I'd take this seriously if you found any 3rd party support for your 90% claim.

And yes, I do actually use an iPad for almost all my web video watching. I don't use anything else at home. It works fine for almost all of the video I come across while browsing - in fact it seems more like 80% the other way.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#178

Post by ryanwaggoner » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 7:38 AM UTC

mckoss wrote: post #112

jsz0 wrote: post #84

We're in a transitional period. The vast majority of people who have iPads do have a PC of some kind also. For now it's the most practical way of doing backups, updates, and syncing large amounts of content. I do think Apple will move in the direction of not requiring a PC for these things but it's non-trival. How do you sync 16-64GB of data over 3G? Do you push 300MB+ updates to someone with a 150MB/month data cap?…

I'll have to disagree with most of what you say here. I would attribute Apple's decision not to divorce the iPad from a PC to their desire to assert some presence onto the PC ecosystem. They don't want to be be JUST your tablet OS, they want to be on the desktop, by forcing installation of iTunes onto Windows machines as well. This way, both products reenforce each other, and they can get increased market share on de…

Updates also work very well over the WiFi network - no need to use your low-bandwidth data plan.

If you don't have a computer, you're unlikely to have a wifi router.

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#179

Post by jackvalentine » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 7:39 AM UTC

recoiledsnake wrote: post #164

ryannielsen wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not 'purposefully broken', and your brother wasn't giving you the 'party line' – he was relaying a fact. To charge over USB, Apple had break the USB spec without compromising compatibility or destroying existing USB peripherals. To do that, the hardware was modified to vend more amps over the bus but only when handshaking has occurred between the attached device and the OS drivers. If you'd installed Apple's dri…

>It's not 'purposefully broken', and your brother wasn't giving you the 'party line' – he was relaying a fact. The fact is that 'some motherboards cannot supply the voltage' or is it 'it needs its own driver to charge' ? >To charge over USB, Apple had break the USB spec without compromising compatibility or destroying existing USB peripherals >If you'd installed Apple's drivers in your XP instance, things would have…

> So they purposefully broke the spec (looks like compatibility WAS compromised, wasn't it) by having a USB connector but not allowing all USB ports to charge it.

I'm fairly sure there is no requirement that your device is able to charge from every USB port. It is still 'in spec' because the cable is used to sync data. It only breaks spec when it knows that the hardware can take it (via apple drivers).

Re: If iPads are “post-pc devices” why must I sync with iTunes before I can use one?

#180

Post by pyre » Sun, Mar 06, 2011, 7:40 AM UTC

bane wrote: post #113

eitland wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not alone. I've been using Mac OS X for two years and can't belive why the company that came up with iPad and iPhone still - have global menus (who really wants that with todays screen resolutions and two monitors?) - needs the worlds best trackpads because their laptop keyboards have misplaced ctrl and their default keybindings are so inconsistent that users would be lost without a good pointing device. - fo…

You forgot - can only resize a window from one corner, and that corner may be off the screen in certain cases so that you can't move the window to a position where the corner is even visible (this just bit me this week) - still doesn't understand how to fullscreen programs (windows maximize function is the single best OS function I've seen that allows a user to focus on just ONE thing). I think this is fixed in the u…

  > still doesn't understand how to fullscreen programs

You're working off of two definitions of maximize though. It's not that OSX "doesn't understand" how to make an app run at fullscreen. It's just a design decision to only maximize to the document's dimensions. I'm not saying that I agree with that decision, but saying that OS X "doesn't understand how to fullscreen programs," is implying that Apple is attempting to make the function work like it does on Windows, but fails at it.