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China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

theguardian.com

171–180 of 385 posts

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#171

Tinfoil hat: I'm not keeping active track, but I passively perceived a sheer drop in mentions of the fact that Wuhan has China's first "biosafety level 4" laboratory, coinciding with an increased lambasting of the US's handling of their infections in the general media (" The Wuhan virus is now the American virus "), along with a streak of random US-critical posts (" What is the worst thing the US government has done?…

> Tinfoil hat: I'm not keeping active track

It's been my experience that everyone who prefaces their comment with statements like this usually are lying. "I'm not X, but ... "

> along with a streak of random US-critical posts ("What is the worst thing the US government has done?") being massively updated on Reddit

Anyone can go on reddit and see the very opposite. This is what I don't understand about propagandists, why lie about something that can be verifiably proven false? Go on worldnews or any major subreddit, what are the ratio of pro and anti-chinese submissions? What are the ratio of pro and anti-china comments? The exact opposite of what you claim.

> This is from the country which forces foreign companies to remove flags of countries it likes to bully (Taiwan, Japan) from their products.

You obviously know why they do for taiwan. As for japan, lets see some examples. If "removing" flags is called "bullying", then your definition of "bullying" is rather naive.

> It's not inconceivable, and certainly probable, that they are filtering the narrative about themselves in something actually serious, such as this pandemic.

No shit. Just like you are filtering a narrative. Just like the US government is filtering a narrative. We are involved in a major trade war.

You are doing the exact same thing you claim "china" is doing.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#172
post #85
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So...evidence? Stating it's compelling isn't evidence, just that it is an explanation that appeals to large populations of our species who are hold certain suspicions. There is, however, a long history of animal to human transmission of diseases. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I have yet to see anyone provide evidence, only twitter rumors, and twitter rumors aren't even regular evidence.

I don't think "coronavirus escapes from a lab, in the exact area where the outbreak started, that was studying coronaviruses" is exactly an 'extraordinary claim'. If anything it's the elephant in the room. Are we just supposed to casually ignore that or what…. I think the problem is that when people think of "lab" they think of some sort of devious genetic engineering bioweapons program, and not something considerabl…

Yeah that’s what I’ve been trying to explain to all my reasonable friends who think that the moment I say “it came from a lab” that means this is a bioweapon that was intentionally released. No, actually, there is a chain of evidence that makes an accidental lab leak more plausible than the theory that the virus jumped straight from an animal in a wet market hundreds of miles away from its normal habitat that just happens to be in the same city as a lab that holds samples of virus from that strain.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#173
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate here: something doesn't need to kill to be an effective Bioweapon. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics." -Sun Tzu COVID has been a logistical nightmare. For everyone. For the record, no--I don't believe anybody 'engineered' it [or has used it]* as a bioweapon. *Edit for clarity

why in the world would someone release a bioweapon that would have major and potentially permanent repercussions for their own people and economy?

No normal person would, but accidents do happen especially if you’re lax with protocol and also there crazy people like Amerithrax incidents back in early 2000s where presumably someone with access seems to have had a grudge or something.

That said, it’s one possibility among others, though the animal reservoir theory is the most viable and accepted at this time.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#174
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate here: something doesn't need to kill to be an effective Bioweapon. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics." -Sun Tzu COVID has been a logistical nightmare. For everyone. For the record, no--I don't believe anybody 'engineered' it [or has used it]* as a bioweapon. *Edit for clarity

why in the world would someone release a bioweapon that would have major and potentially permanent repercussions for their own people and economy?

If it affected their own people less, gaining a net advantage over other nations. A totalitarian/authoritarian state will always be able to manage an epidemic more effectively than a democratic one.

Disclaimer: I don’t believe this, just playing devil’s advocate

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one knows where this started. We know where the first confirmed case was reported, but that's not the same thing. I carry no brief for the CCP. But I do find it difficult to say nothing in the face of what looks like a struggle among a variety of factions, none openly declared, to establish a narrative of responsibility for a world-altering catastrophe, with no closer or more consistent reference to facts of any k…

We absolutely do know where it started. Prehaps not precisely in physical space but that 13 of the first 41 cases had no connection to the seafood market is very strong evidence that whatever the source may be, it was socially and physically proximate to the market just like the lab but not likely the market itself. To compare this to Iraq is absolutely preposterous and fallacious. The two have absolutely nothing in…

Do you not think people come from out of town, sometimes from quite far out of town, to sell food at a city market? That's how they work here in Baltimore, and anyone who's ever been to Lexington Market, or even seen a picture of what the crowds are like there (1), can have no trouble imagining how effective a transmission vector it would be for any contagious pathogen hitching a ride in an out-of-town vendor there. Why should things work differently in Wuhan?

"Held accountable" is a rhetorical phrase that was much used then, too. (2) So it's an interesting thing to find in an argument that this situation and that one are totally unalike.

(1) https://www.wypr.org/sites/wyprmain/files/styles/x_large/pub...

(2) https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2001/nov/28/iraq.brianwhit...

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#176

Tinfoil hat: I'm not keeping active track, but I passively perceived a sheer drop in mentions of the fact that Wuhan has China's first "biosafety level 4" laboratory, coinciding with an increased lambasting of the US's handling of their infections in the general media (" The Wuhan virus is now the American virus "), along with a streak of random US-critical posts (" What is the worst thing the US government has done?…

> Tinfoil hat: I'm not keeping active track It's been my experience that everyone who prefaces their comment with statements like this usually are lying. "I'm not X, but ... " > along with a streak of random US-critical posts ("What is the worst thing the US government has done?") being massively updated on Reddit Anyone can go on reddit and see the very opposite. This is what I don't understand about propagandists,…

> You obviously know why they do for taiwan

To bully them?

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#177
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why in the world would someone release a bioweapon that would have major and potentially permanent repercussions for their own people and economy?

Agreed, that wouldn't be a very smart thing to do at all.

yes, indeed.

however, you'll note by the downvotes no one here wants to be reasonable. it's a trend i've noticed on hacker news. this site claims a lot to be unbiased and evidence based, but i have noticed when it comes to china, all reason floats out the window. it's a dangerous effect because there are actual problems that are exacerbated and confused by propaganda and unfounded claims from the other side, which also hides problems with the other side. it's just not good for anyone and creates a cess pool of misinformation.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#178
post #11

Combined with the researcher at the lab that was disappeared this is pretty convincing.

LOL everyone in China 'disappear' when they decide to not post on social media for X amount of days. Of course you never hear story that they're 'found' by posting or doing something again - despite the fact that they almost always do.

The guy was in police custody. And he died shortly after. Come on now, at least try to follow along.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t buy this. Why would governments pay people to shitpost on Reddit when so many of us gladly do it for free?

There’s a lot of value in paying/blackmailing the moderators. You can clearly certain subreddits, such as r/worldnews, becoming increasingly pro-China. The mod team played a huge role in this, as they have been perma banning people who post a lot of anti-China comments. I’ve for instance had several accounts banned (one simply for sarcastically saying “Thanks China”) - there were also a thread on r/China where plenty…

I can't see anything in that image.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the researchers at that lab was also effectively dissapeared. I don't believe the conspiracy crowd saying this was some kind of weapon, but there's reasonable evidence to suggest that this is a case of embarrassing government incompetence (which the CCP loaths) followed by attempts to cover up said incompetence while a solution was persued.

> One of the researchers at that lab was also effectively dissapeared. Source?

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