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Popcorn Time 4.0

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Re: Popcorn Time 4.0

#171

Post by saagarjha »

dfxm12 wrote: post #163
saagarjha wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This doesn't really explain your position on why you don't just buy/rent $50 worth of movies per month. Isn’t their position that they’d like this thing to exist? I don’t see how you need to have a Spotify or Apple Music account to understand the argument.

What "thing"? You can currently buy or rent whatever you want and watch it. I haven't found anything on a streaming service that isn't also for sale/rent somewhere and have found things for sale that are not available on streaming services. If you want access to "_everything_", and are willing to pay a premium over existing services, buying/renting what you want is available today. Problem Solved, no?

Online?

Re: Popcorn Time 4.0

#172

Post by cjg »

awicz wrote: post #4

Serious question about torrents: How is this not stealing? I'm not trying to be judgemental. I certainly don't have any room to do so as I used Napster and the likes back in the day. Now with the advent of Amazon Prime, Hulu, Netflix, etc, I'm genuinely curious to know the moral argument for using services and platforms that utilize torrents to distribute media other creators are actually trying to sell? Edit: Appare…

It isn't stealing. After you torrent something, someone else doesn't have less.

It also isn't treated as stealing by (most countries'?) legal frameworks. It's copyright infringement - and not even commercial infringement (where you are making money by infringing). Non-commercial copyright infringement isn't even criminal - it's a civil matter.

Re: Popcorn Time 4.0

#174

Post by crimsonalucard »

pachico wrote: post #155
crimsonalucard wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to be honest with all of you. You all are doing something that is ethically and morally wrong and statements like this are only way too human attempts to justify the actions of things you know are clearly wrong. You can't find legal sources of swing manouche just like you can't find legal sources of the Mona Lisa by Leonardo da vinci. What are you going to do? make a counterfeit copy of the Mona Lisa then b…

My specific case was live albums of a band named Waso, which were never printed in CD. The only digital copies were fans that owned original vinil records from the '70s and digitalised them. What do you do in this case? I remember downloading a copy of them and not feeling any kind of remorse about it. Not sure it helps but I was myself a musician and my brother plays too as is his only source of income. I know a bit…

Well let's put it this way, does the artist as the the creator of said art permit you to do such a thing?

If the artist is okay with it great! But if the artist is not okay with at all does he own the rights to the art he created? Does he have the right to permit you not to copy his things? That is the ethical question.

Did you have the right to do it without asking the artist for permission? What if one day the artist did actually want to make a profit off his work?

Re: Popcorn Time 4.0

#175

Post by degski »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #147
pachico wrote: post #44

I'm a huge fan of swing manouche (jazz style developed during the '40s). I can't find albums in legal sources that I can instead find in Nicotine++ (a Linux version of the old Soulseek). What should I do? Accept that I won't find it? I remember once writing to an Aussie record label asking for a copy of an old album of Brett Garsed. They told me I wouldn't find it here in Europe nor they had the means to send it to m…

I'm going to be honest with all of you. You all are doing something that is ethically and morally wrong and statements like this are only way too human attempts to justify the actions of things you know are clearly wrong. You can't find legal sources of swing manouche just like you can't find legal sources of the Mona Lisa by Leonardo da vinci. What are you going to do? make a counterfeit copy of the Mona Lisa then b…

I fully agree with you on all points except: "still a crime btw". 'pirating' on this small scale without a direct financial benefit [money coming towards you] is a violation of the copyright act(s) and you would end up in civil court.

Re: Popcorn Time 4.0

#176

Post by forgotpwd16 »

josho wrote: post #130
CJefferson wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An official and legal version of this wouldn't be $50/month, it would be more like $200/month. It includes movies from every major company, and films while they are still in the cinema.

Streaming music has set the price floor. For the price of an album a month you can stream all the music you want, even new releases. What makes you think movies should have a multiple of 10 instead of 1 for a monthly subscription fee? I'll attempt an answer, the cost should be whatever the market will bare. The market could likely boom at $50/mth, but at $200 it would be niche. The industry seems to even be coalescin…

I'm fairly certain that movies are far more expensive to produce than music albums.

Re: Popcorn Time 4.0

#177

Post by crimsonalucard »

pachico wrote: post #159
crimsonalucard wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to be honest with all of you. You all are doing something that is ethically and morally wrong and statements like this are only way too human attempts to justify the actions of things you know are clearly wrong. You can't find legal sources of swing manouche just like you can't find legal sources of the Mona Lisa by Leonardo da vinci. What are you going to do? make a counterfeit copy of the Mona Lisa then b…

You seem to be quite sure about the type of person I am and defining me grey is quite insulting but that's beyond what is being discussed here. You seem to have missed what I wrote a out having accounts of Spotify and 3 video streaming services. I am also tempted to tell you that you might want to revise you usage of the words morally and ethically and that these are probably more profound than to be applied to a kid…

>I am also tempted to tell you that you might want to revise you usage of the words morally and ethically and that these are probably more profound than to be applied to a kid wanting to buy an album but failed to find it. Having said this, have a good day.

Don't make it profound. Make it simple. The kid couldn't find the album so he DLed it illegally. The kid is aware of this illegality at some level.

That awareness is how simple the situation actually is. The profoundness arises when someone tries to justify the situation. I use the word ethics and morals as one would use it in common english parlance about discussions of such matters, I am not asking for a philosophical definition of said terms.

Re: Popcorn Time 4.0

#178

Post by msla »

golergka wrote: post #75
1_player wrote: post #7

Say what you will about stealing, illegality, unsavouriness. If the film industry would collectively take their head out of their arses and provide such a simple interface and wide catalogue to the masses, they would make hundreds of billions. I would literally pay $50 a month for an official and legal version of this. The end users don't really care that it is not possible because "legal reasons". This app proves ot…

That's two conversations mixed up in one: one about what is, as in, a prediction of what we can expect people to do, without any value judgements, and another about what ought to be, as in, what's our moral and ethical opinion of this behavior. And while the second one is a very tempting rabbit hole of flame wars, the first one is very clear cut: if you give people access to everything (or almost everything) for a re…

> That's two conversations mixed up in one: one about what is, as in, a prediction of what we can expect people to do, without any value judgements, and another about what ought to be, as in, what's our moral and ethical opinion of this behavior.

Economists are careful to distinguish between 'positive' and 'normative' economics, where positive economics is what's observed to happen and normative economics is what someone things ought to happen, morally, for precisely that reason. There are always the people who can't or won't make that distinction, however, including the people who refuse to distinguish between describing something and expressing approval of it. This has a particular relevance in any online community with a downvote function: If enough people are offended by a description of a state of affairs, any discussion of it will be downvoted to oblivion and will be impossible to hold in that forum, especially if downvotes are tied to how much you can participate in that forum in some fashion.

Re: Popcorn Time 4.0

#179

Post by madez »

1_player wrote: post #7

Say what you will about stealing, illegality, unsavouriness. If the film industry would collectively take their head out of their arses and provide such a simple interface and wide catalogue to the masses, they would make hundreds of billions. I would literally pay $50 a month for an official and legal version of this. The end users don't really care that it is not possible because "legal reasons". This app proves ot…

It is not stealing. It may be illegal, but it isn't stealing nor robbery. You may be violating the copyright law, but nobody is taken away any object and there is no threat of violence. When people get access to copyrighted works, then at first, it is good for people. Only then the idea is that the creators can't make a living by producing those works. We can solve that differently, without using copyright. Copyright is a weirdly anti-market and authoritarian concept where the government artificially makes something scarce by punishing supply. In any case, distributing stuff is not stealing. /rant

Re: Popcorn Time 4.0

#180

Post by bschne »

pachico wrote: post #44

I'm a huge fan of swing manouche (jazz style developed during the '40s). I can't find albums in legal sources that I can instead find in Nicotine++ (a Linux version of the old Soulseek). What should I do? Accept that I won't find it? I remember once writing to an Aussie record label asking for a copy of an old album of Brett Garsed. They told me I wouldn't find it here in Europe nor they had the means to send it to m…

OT, but as a fan of Django who doesn't know any other artists of the genre - do you have some recommendations? :D
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