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Thunderbolt

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Re: Thunderbolt

#171

Post by hitonagashi »

ugh wrote: post #154
bgruber wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my sister recently plugged a usb cable into an ethernet port. don't assume that because something seems like a massive amount of kludgery to you that a user won't do it anyway.

I plugged a USB cable into an Ethernet port many times! Not intentionally, obviously, but I did it because the USB plug has just the right width to fit snugly in an Ethernet port. It’s easy to do when you are not looking. You should try it, it even feels sort of right in a very wrong way. There is no kludgery involved when plugging USB cables into Ethernet ports. They just fit perfectly.

I once plugged an Ethernet cable into a USB port...I was a lot younger, and I took a file to it because I was absolutely convinced I'd been shipped a cable that was too big.

Re: Thunderbolt

#173

Post by irons »

ugh wrote: post #106
skorgu wrote: post #45

What happens if I plug a PC into another PC via thunderbolt?

Hopefully the same as when you plug a Mac into another Mac via FireWire. (One of the Macs becomes the most expensive external HDD ever. This requires one Mac to reboot into the target disk mode. It would be nice if the same trick would be possible with Thunderbolt without rebooting.)

You have to boot into target disk mode for the same reason you can't plug one Firewire disk into two computers simultaneously.

TDM is supported in Thunderbolt, to my great glee. Terrific Firewire feature.

Re: Thunderbolt

#174

Post by hop »

Zak wrote: post #94
hop wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just get them from JAE, you have to license the male plug thru Apple and it's a big process. And Apple lets no one but Apple use the female 30 pin plug.

License under what legal theory? It doesn't seem like a fairly ordinary plug would meet the standards for either patent or copyright.

I don't know, but there is a reason no other manufacturers use it. And its a massive legal and due diligence process to get into the Made for iPod program which gives you all the specs and supplies the connectors, along with charging royalties.

http://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi

Re: Thunderbolt

#175

Post by whatusername »

yread wrote: post #28
hop wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB2 and FireWire were close to the same speed. Thunderbolt is twice as fast as USB3 and can push DisplayPorts, so I doubt it will be the same.

Yes, but 1) USB3 has a 1 year lead - check out how many products are out already 2) 5Gbps vs 10Gbps. There are just a couple of SSDs that need SATA III (6Gbps) because the 3Gbps isn't enough. You just don't need the speed for disk I/O. What for then? Current DisplayPorts 1.2 has 17Gbps so I don't really see the Thunderbolt replacing it. also Firewire 800 was substantially faster in theoretical and particularly in pra…

I have maybe 20 products at home that plug into my USB 3 ports.

I don't have anything that plugs into thunderbolt.

I couldn't and wouldn't buy a computer without USB. I can live without Thunderbolt.

Re: Thunderbolt

#176

Post by whatusername »

paolomaffei wrote: post #156

On another note the new MacBook Pro is nothing special: - still no SSD drive built-in (+$250) - still no 8GB of RAM built-in (+$200) - less battery duration than last generation

Are there any laptops with 8GB built in the default?

Re: Thunderbolt

#177

Post by dfox »

pmjordan wrote: post #139
mortenjorck wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it's not part of ARM's reference designs, could Apple integrate it into a future A-series chip?

This goes beyond my knowledge of hardware design, but I suspect there's no fundamental reason preventing it. The signal processing at those sort of clock rates may however consume more power than is practical - I don't know.

PCIe essentially trades greater hardware complexity for lower power requirements (and higher performance). Original PCI is similar in this regard (that also reduced number of required external passive components on motherboards compared to ISA).

So if anything prevents usage of PCIe in embedded devices it's added complexity, not power requirements. By the way electrical interface of most modern true-color TFT panels is identical on the lowest layer to PCIe (and SATA and who knows what else).

Re: Thunderbolt

#178

Post by potatolicious »

whyleyc wrote: post #165
kayoone wrote: post #98

i sense multiple external screens on a MBP :D

That's already been possible for a few years - http://daggle.com/macbook-pro-multimonitor-4-monitors-at-onc...

Possible, but not great. The Matrox and Diamond solutions have always been a bit hacky - USB simply can't push bits fast enough and there are lots of cases where you will max it out and stutter.

This is actual support for dual monitors, without compromises.

Re: Thunderbolt

#179

Post by moe »

hop wrote: post #66
sammcd wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also remember that the doc connector is a revenue source. I'm having trouble finding a source right now, but if I am remembering right Apple sells the actual dock connectors to accessory makers.

Yep, Apple charges royalty on the 30 pin conector, which varies in cost depending on what it's used for. You have to be enrolled in Apple's MiFi program too. Apple makes money everywhere.

I heard apple charges $4 per unit.

Re: Thunderbolt

#180

Post by nlogn »

jimbokun wrote: post #142
nlogn wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thunderbolt may be technically superior in every single way, but unless other manufacturers use it for their laptops/motherboards, Apple's 10ish% market share is going to ensure that USB 3.0 "wins" ultimately. This will wind up being just like firewire where aside from Apple's stuff and a select few "Apple" manufacturers, nobody uses it and consumers either buy the more expensive Apple stuff, or use a dongle and see…

Apple also pioneered USB with the iMac. Because USB was the only way to connect anything to the iMac, it served as a catalyst for device makers to come out with USB devices, since they knew they had a captive market. Once the number of USB peripherals reached critical mass, the general PC market followed suit. So, will Thunderbolt adoption more closely resemble that of Firewire, or USB?

I believe the new macs still have USB ports, no? So what incentive do peripherals manufacturers have to use Thunderbolt and target just the new macbooks vs USB 3.0 and targeting everything?
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