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No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

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Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#171

Post by claudiawerner »

chrisweekly wrote: post #145
claudiawerner wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professional courtesy doesn't matter much when it's now the norm not to be curteous, and thought to be unprofitable (in all the ways benefit is measured, not just in monetary terms) if the company is curteous. There is no professionalism above the level requried to maintain an increasing rate of profit. Workers in all industries since the beginning of waged labour have learned this fact the hard way.

Strong disagree. Eroding standards of civility are no excuse for lowering the bar on how you behave. I'd urge you to set an example, honor yourself and contribute to the solution, rather than compounding the problem by sinking to the lowest common denominator.

I do think we should be curteous, far from it (and employers doubly so); I'm not excusing their beahviour, but I am saying it many cases it pays to not be curteous (note, not being curteous isn't the same as being definitely uncurteous). It is the sort of behaviour interviewees have grown to expect.

The pursuit of protit over courteousness is bound to happen when positive courteousness has a negligible and potentially negative impact on profit.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#172

Post by HarryHirsch »

Here's a story from a previous place of employment: they needed to hire a new lab technician. The two finalists were a young guy fresh out of school and an old dude with experience. Of course they chose the younger guy, they always do, malleability and a full head of hair always beat experience and competence. 6 months later they had to fire him because he was stealing equipment and selling it. It was an embarassment for the hiring manager, one that could have been predicted.

If they had fed a story to the unsuccessful candidate and if word about the string of thefts had emerged, that guy would have gone from disappointed to absolutely ballistic, and he would have been right in telling everyone that the hiring manager was an ageist worthless piece of shit and that anyone who can should stay far away from that employer.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#173

Post by dickjocke »

komali2 wrote: post #155
_cairn wrote: post #120

So many comments in the vein of "who has time to waste on candidates we aren't going to make an offer to?" - You are damaging your companies brand thinking this way. You want people who you reject to say to themselves "I can't wait to study up and interview here again, they said no, but I still want to work here!"

> I can't wait to study up Surely if a rejection was for a reason that a couple weeks of study could "fix," it wasn't worth a rejection, right? Are hirers out there really being THAT picky? I'm going through resumes right now and rejecting people if I think they need a year or more experience under their belt than what they're presenting. If it's because they know react and not vue, that's not reject worthy at all...

Why can't this be on the scale of 3 or 5 years? I'm reminded of the Maya Angelou quote: "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel."

I don't remember 99.9% of what recruiters have said to me, but I do remember the two companies (Hulu and LinkedIn) that made me feel like crap and jerked me around. It was 2 years ago and I'm sure most of the people who were a part of that are gone, but I still kind of have that grudge.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#174

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

blaser-waffle wrote: post #80
rchaud wrote: post #11

The hiring process is a black box for a reason. The HR department's role is to protect the company first, not the employees, and certainly not prospective employees. If feedback can be interpreted as being discriminatory, or reflective of bad company culture in general, well, word gets around. For much of the time, the reason people don't get the job is that there was someone marginally more qualified/attractive/like…

Bingo. After the interview is done and the answer is a solid NO, as a company we have NO BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP with you. Any iota of effort we put towards you is essentially wasted effort, even if very minor. What changes that discussion further is that there is a small, but still quite real, possibility of lawsuit, social media rant (as another comment mentioned), or even a disgruntled applicant shooting up the plac…

Harvey Milk was assassinated by Dan White, a former city supervisor who wanted his prior job (as city supervisor) back.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#175

Post by baron816 »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #172

Here's a story from a previous place of employment: they needed to hire a new lab technician. The two finalists were a young guy fresh out of school and an old dude with experience. Of course they chose the younger guy, they always do, malleability and a full head of hair always beat experience and competence. 6 months later they had to fire him because he was stealing equipment and selling it. It was an embarassment…

I think the article is targeted at employers who act in good faith and don’t discriminate.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#176

Post by Thriptic »

vosper wrote: post #163
Thriptic wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with this. I've had two companies contact me and offer legitimate feedback after interviews, and I always left feeling happy and with good feelings about them. I applied to one company and got a response back which was effectively "we really like you as a candidate, but it doesn't seem like you would be the right fit for this job / it doesn't seem like the interests you expressed in your interviews [which…

So what exactly did these companies gain? They didn't hire you now, but might be able to hire you in the future because you would maybe apply again (assuming you get passed the "we already didn't hire this person" filter)? With all the risk, that doesn't seem like much of a payoff to the company, to me. (Though I am glad you got feedback you considered valuable, and I think it's cool that the companies did that)

They gain the goodwill of a prospective employee who might cycle back and be a great fit later on in their career (and who has more skills then). It's also about what they don't lose, which is not only me but potentially other prospective candidates. Know what happens when someone mentions they are considering applying to a place that never got back to me? I tell them don't apply there, they waste your time / they don't care about candidates / their interview process sucks. How many people does that person then go tell? I've absolutely punted on applying to places which my friends have said similar things about.

Reputation matters a lot.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#177

Post by dblohm7 »

kenhwang wrote: post #6

One time we gave feedback on request and the candidate contested the feedback, then went out on a social media rampage. So yeah, we stopped after that. It only takes one bad candidate to make it not worth the effort.

I appreciate what you're saying, and I realize that social media is a cesspool, but isn't your stance condescending toward candidates that you do want to hire?

Surely a reasonable person with good critical thinking skills can look at one of those "rampages" and recognize it for what it is.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#178

Post by HarryHirsch »

baron816 wrote: post #175
HarryHirsch wrote: post #172

Here's a story from a previous place of employment: they needed to hire a new lab technician. The two finalists were a young guy fresh out of school and an old dude with experience. Of course they chose the younger guy, they always do, malleability and a full head of hair always beat experience and competence. 6 months later they had to fire him because he was stealing equipment and selling it. It was an embarassment…

I think the article is targeted at employers who act in good faith and don’t discriminate.

Everyone thinks they are the good guys. I recently interviewed with a properly progressive woman, who went on to tell me that she doesn't have a good track record interacting with old dudes, and I have no reason to doubt her good faith.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#179

Post by baron816 »

komali2 wrote: post #155
_cairn wrote: post #120

So many comments in the vein of "who has time to waste on candidates we aren't going to make an offer to?" - You are damaging your companies brand thinking this way. You want people who you reject to say to themselves "I can't wait to study up and interview here again, they said no, but I still want to work here!"

> I can't wait to study up Surely if a rejection was for a reason that a couple weeks of study could "fix," it wasn't worth a rejection, right? Are hirers out there really being THAT picky? I'm going through resumes right now and rejecting people if I think they need a year or more experience under their belt than what they're presenting. If it's because they know react and not vue, that's not reject worthy at all...

Hiring is definitely more art than science. I’d argue that now one has really figured out how to do it well.

Some companies do actually hire people fresh out of college/coding boot camp, and for those people, some feedback and a few weeks studying might make a world of difference.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#180

Post by elliotec »

_cairn wrote: post #120

So many comments in the vein of "who has time to waste on candidates we aren't going to make an offer to?" - You are damaging your companies brand thinking this way. You want people who you reject to say to themselves "I can't wait to study up and interview here again, they said no, but I still want to work here!"

I mostly disagree. I really can't think of a case where I would want to interview the same person twice. That said, I'm happy to provide feedback if they ask, and when it comes to interviewing, I personally appreciate feedback ONLY when I ask.
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