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An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

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Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#171

Post by AlexCoventry »

SamWhited wrote: post #107
crystaldev wrote: post #28

Good luck to Brad. It sounds like the last twelve years of his life were pure Google, it's a big change. > I don't want to get stuck in a comfortable rut. (And Google certainly is comfortable, except for open floor plans.) It's oddly comforting that even programmers of Brad's caliber are forced to cope with open offices. When can this fad end.

> When can this fad end It's not a fad, businesses aren't doing this just because it's trendy and cool and they think people will like it, they're doing it because it saves them a fortune and they care more about their bottom line than their employees well being.

I'm curious whether Google's decision to stick to open floor plans was data-driven.

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#172

Post by bradfitz »

gtirloni wrote: post #151

It's a bit surprising to me that a great engineer can't be properly managed to find interesting work in a company as huge as Google. I'd expect all layers of management to be engaged in finding exciting challenges for Brad.

I think there would've been more of that had I asked for it or given a more explicit warning.

I also moved from San Francisco to Seattle recently without really asking for permission, and while there's a lot to do in Seattle, there's much more to do in the Bay Area.

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#173

Post by oblio »

magduf wrote: post #128
VRay wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It saves a fortune, but the companies are spending a fortune on their employees' salary and benefits too I think we're talking the difference between $300/month on open desk space vs $1000/month on an office. It's a lot of money and it adds up, but these people are costing the company a total of $10k-$40k a month My theory is that open space is extremely helpful to certain types of people, and those traits coincident…

>My theory is that open space is extremely helpful to certain types of people, and those traits coincidentally overlap with the people calling the shots at a lot of companies. Sociable upper managerial-types probably value being able to collaborate more easily in open space more than being able to concentrate in private offices. Yes, and in addition, sociable developers value being able to collaborate more easily in…

In 1990 there were probably 1 million developers. Now it's probably closer to 100 million.

Developers are close to a representative sample of the whole population, and the general populace is not introverted :-)

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#174

Post by llegnaf »

jgrahamc wrote: post #60
llegnaf wrote: post #56

Is Brad moving to Cloudflare given that this was posted by their CTO? Best of luck Brad, always been a fan of your stuff!

That would be news to me.

Always fun to speculate! I was connecting the dots of Go being widely adopted at Cloudflare ... or something like that.

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#175

Post by fh973 »

ch4s3 wrote: post #165
fh973 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that companies may prioritize team productivity over individual productivity. Communication and density could be beneficial towards that.

There's some pretty compelling evidence that open offices diminish communication.

There is a spectrum of "open". The Google offices I know are not wide open areas but team offices or areas.

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#176

Post by bovermyer »

chrisseaton wrote: post #145
bovermyer wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It matters in this case because the discussion took a turn towards comparing the compensation of staff to the provisioning of the office environment. In that context, companies' consideration of expenditures will take into account capital versus operational categories.

Why does it matter? It's all the same money no matter which budget it comes out of.

No, it's not. Capital expenditures are reported differently and held to different standards and strategies.

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#177

Post by vonmoltke »

eterm wrote: post #35
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #3

To me, the most surprising thing about this post was a) his low number of managers, and b) his low number of desk changes. In under half that time at another, comparable tech company I hit well over half his number of desk changes.

Have I misunderstood what a desk is? 25 desk changes in 10 years is low? Moving desk at least twice a year is low? Where do you work so I never try to apply?

To go against the trend of the other anecdotes here, I just had desk change #8 of my 17.5-year career (across 5 companies). I am awaiting the result of manager change #4.

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#178

Post by oblio »

johnyzee wrote: post #154
SamWhited wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When can this fad end It's not a fad, businesses aren't doing this just because it's trendy and cool and they think people will like it, they're doing it because it saves them a fortune and they care more about their bottom line than their employees well being.

Google just lost a top percentile developer over their open floor plan. Literally irreplaceable. But they saved a few dollars on space. That is being penny wise and pound foolish, particularly for a company like Google who is not capital constrained. (He may not have quit directly because of the open office plan, but given that it's one of the few complaints he makes, it obviously is a factor.)

The thing is, it doesn't matter.

To make a parallel with Microsoft in the early 00's and IBM before that:

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost...

> Although there is some truth to the fact that Linux is a huge threat to Microsoft, predictions of the Redmond company’s demise are, to say the least, premature. Microsoft has an incredible amount of cash money in the bank and is still incredibly profitable. It has a long way to fall. It could do everything wrong for a decade before it started to be in remote danger, and you never know… they could reinvent themselves as a shaved-ice company at the last minute. So don’t be so quick to write them off. In the early 90s everyone thought IBM was completely over: mainframes were history! Back then, Robert X. Cringely predicted that the era of the mainframe would end on January 1, 2000 when all the applications written in COBOL would seize up, and rather than fix those applications, for which, allegedly, the source code had long since been lost, everybody would rewrite those applications for client-server platforms.

Google has more money than Microsoft had back then and Google's product-market fit has been amazing since day 1. Any 1 individual (or even 100 individuals, 1000 individuals) could mess up royally and Google would still be around in 2050 :-)

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#179

Post by dboreham »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #171
SamWhited wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When can this fad end It's not a fad, businesses aren't doing this just because it's trendy and cool and they think people will like it, they're doing it because it saves them a fortune and they care more about their bottom line than their employees well being.

I'm curious whether Google's decision to stick to open floor plans was data-driven.

CFO-driven.

Re: An Update on Bradfitz: Leaving Google

#180

Post by chrisseaton »

bovermyer wrote: post #176
chrisseaton wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter? It's all the same money no matter which budget it comes out of.

No, it's not. Capital expenditures are reported differently and held to different standards and strategies.

But if you have a million in funding, then who does it matter to if you spend it on infrastructure or operational expenses? You're still burning the same amount of cash.
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