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Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

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Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#171

Post by kerkeslager »

nickelcitymario wrote: post #28

I'm gonna take the contrarian viewpoint here. Full disclosure: I'm in advertising. The researcher states that increasing "aspiration" (their term) leads to dissatisfaction and more unhappiness. Sure! But aspiration is also why we invented the wheel, harnessed fire, founded fancy schools like Harvard, try to be good parents, etc. I don't disagree that ambition and aspiration can make a person unhappy. But it's also wh…

> Advertising isn't inherently bad, any more than aspirations are inherently bad. It boils down to what's being advertised and how honest the ads are about it.

They aren't honest about it.

An honest appraisal of a product would include all relevant information, including if a competitor's product is better or cheaper, or if the product has problems that might be worse than the solution. That's what Consumer Reports-type sites do, what friends/family do, what doctors/mechanics do, what minimalists do. It's not what advertisers do. The very most honest advertising is lying by omission, and most advertising is much worse than that.

If you were trying to help consumers find the best products, you'd work for an independent review site that accepts money from consumers rather than producers so that you're actually accountable to the people you help. Advertising isn't there to help consumers--it fundamentally is the wrong way to help consumers.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#172

Post by nickelcitymario »

JohnFen wrote: post #153
nickelcitymario wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you've given a "solution" (that involves separating me from my money) to a problem that you created in the first place. When did I create a problem? Yes, some advertising invents nonexistent problems and I thought I was clear that this shit is evil. That's a different thing from saying "that headache you have sucks, doesn't it? here's some tylenol" > No, you wouldn't, because doing so will make people unhappy,…

> That's a different thing from saying "that headache you have sucks, doesn't it? here's some tylenol" It is indeed different. I was responding to this: > 1. If I'm successful in getting you to want the product, I've created (or emphasized an existing) dissatisfaction. That's not good. But: > 2. I've given you the knowledge of a solution to your problem. Where you appeared to be justifying creating dissatisfaction on…

> Where you appeared to be justifying creating dissatisfaction on the basis that you are providing a solution to that dissatisfaction. I'm sorry if I misunderstood your point here.

Touché. I did say that. Balderdash.

My point (poorly stated) was that while I think it's cruel to create a problem where it doesn't exist, it's not cruel to promote the solution to a real problem that already exists. However, promoting the solution involves reminding you of the problem, which creates or emphasizes a dissatisfaction you may have been ignoring.

> I suppose that I did -- and I still do, because I don't see how my reply was unresponsive.

My point in using heroin as an example was to say there are plenty of ways to create happiness that aren't necessarily beneficial in the long run.

Perhaps some better examples would be:

- Sitting on the beach all day

- Not exercising

- Spending every dollar I have today and ignoring my future needs

All of these would lead to me being happy for a while. But eventually they're detrimental. Yes?

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#173

Post by teekert »

aketchum wrote: post #116
teekert wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we can just create a lower underclass that we make too stupid to care for growth by subjecting them to alcohol during pregnancy and provide them with drugs that will simply allow them to be content by being.

Is this a Brave New World reference?

Yes :)

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#174

Post by beart »

nickelcitymario wrote: post #118
beart wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel slightly insulted by your point of view. You seem to be saying that advertising is like medicine, it might taste bad but it will end up being good for me in the end. Short of moving to a cabin in the woods, there is no way to actually escape advertising if I choose. And even limiting advertising takes a lot of effort. I'm not just talking about ads on web pages - it's in movies, TV, on the sides of buildings,…

> You seem to be saying that advertising is like medicine, it might taste bad but it will end up being good for me in the end. Goodness me, no that's not what I'm saying and I apologize if that's how it came out. The research paper said advertising leads to aspirations, and this is inherently bad because aspirations lead to unhappiness. I'm saying aspirations are a good thing, regardless of their source. I didn't kno…

> As for the quantity of advertising, I said this in another response as well: How do you intend to limit it? While any ban is obviously a negative to my business, on an ethical standpoint I'm fine with such a ban as long as it's complete. What I'm not ok with is saying "there can only be X number of ads" because THAT's when things get unfair. That's when the advertisers with the biggest pockets will get the advantage, because they'll be the only ones who can afford to buy such a limited supply of ads.

Just because it's a hard problem to solve doesn't mean it's not a problem worth solving or that there is no solution. That said, I don't think just lowering the number of ads is really getting at what I'm saying.

Lowering the number of advertisements doesn't provide me with any more choice, it just makes the current situation less annoying (to whatever degree). If I want a particular thing, I can go out and search for it. I don't need to be told about that thing constantly when I have no initial desire for it.

Here is a concrete example. I enjoy films, but I don't watch network or cable television at home, so I generally don't have any idea what new movies are out there. However, when I decide that I feel like watching a movie, I go online and seek out the advertisements (trailers) for those movies. I do this by my own choice.

Another example is that I will sometimes check out the recommended videos on YouTube if I'm bored, and these are essentially advertisements for various content creators. Again, I make the specific choice to do this.

When I'm driving down the highway, my goal is to get somewhere, not find a local personal injury attorney, and yet I am forced to see sign after sign for these with absolutely no choice in the matter.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#175

Post by dgacmu »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #46
Franciscouzo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving a newish car is a pretty good idea though, they are generally way safer.

If you are talking about one from the 80s probably yes, 2009 not so much.

2012 -- electronic stability control made a pretty big difference. Past that, the jury is out.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#176

Post by bduerst »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #27
marcus_holmes wrote: post #9

the goal of advertising is to make you want something you don't have. QED

Using advertising to create demand is only a tiny part of the advertising market, and arguably the worst way to spend your ad budget. Most advertising is to maintain your market share in already established and very competitive markets. E.g., Coca-Cola plastering their logo everywhere to prevent Pepsi from doing the same. It's certainly not to convince those who don't drink Coke to start doing so.

Yep. Advertising exists because of information asymmetry in imperfect markets.

Until humans know everything about every good or service in every market, there is going to be a demand for advertising.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#177

Post by kerkeslager »

cm2012 wrote: post #20
xtracto wrote: post #8

This reminds me of an anecdote a friend told me: This friend dedicates his time in going to very rural areas/towns here in Mexico to implement government programs. At some point in the past he got to a town were the cantina had just gotten the only TV in town... apparently people in the town were generally happy, and they had everything they needed... so in their view they were not poor. But once they started watchin…

We should strive to take away the option of knowledge from the poor, so they can be happy with their place in society.

Advertising doesn't contain knowledge. It's like a stopped clock: even when it's correct, you don't know it's correct, because most of the time it's not correct.

And more critically, even when it is correct, it's not the complete story. I've never seen an ad that admits that their competitor's product is cheaper, or better. In fact, most ads don't even want you to know their competitor exists. So let's not pretend advertising is about "giving knowledge to the poor". That's just an odious lie. If it were about giving knowledge, you'd by trying to tell the whole story.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#178

Post by manigandham »

apatters wrote: post #29
cm2012 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should strive to take away the option of knowledge from the poor, so they can be happy with their place in society.

We should strive to lie less to the poor about what they need to possess.

False advertising is already illegal.

Other than that, there's nothing wrong with creating desire for something. It's ultimately up to the people to make their own choices.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#179

Post by nickelcitymario »

beart wrote: post #174
nickelcitymario wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to be saying that advertising is like medicine, it might taste bad but it will end up being good for me in the end. Goodness me, no that's not what I'm saying and I apologize if that's how it came out. The research paper said advertising leads to aspirations, and this is inherently bad because aspirations lead to unhappiness. I'm saying aspirations are a good thing, regardless of their source. I didn't kno…

> As for the quantity of advertising, I said this in another response as well: How do you intend to limit it? While any ban is obviously a negative to my business, on an ethical standpoint I'm fine with such a ban as long as it's complete. What I'm not ok with is saying "there can only be X number of ads" because THAT's when things get unfair. That's when the advertisers with the biggest pockets will get the advantag…

> Just because it's a hard problem to solve doesn't mean it's not a problem worth solving or that there is no solution.

Agreed.

> Lowering the number of advertisements doesn't provide me with any more choice, it just makes the current situation less annoying (to whatever degree). If I want a particular thing, I can go out and search for it. I don't need to be told about that thing constantly when I have no initial desire for it.

But in order for those products to be available when you go looking for them, those businesses have to actually exist. And for them to exist, they need a lot more customers than just you. And the #1 way businesses get more customers is... checks notes... advertising.

> Another example is that I will sometimes check out the recommended videos on YouTube if I'm bored, and these are essentially advertisements for various content creators. Again, I make the specific choice to do this.

How do those creators make their money?

Ad revenue.

Re: Researchers find inverse correlation between advertising and life satisfaction

#180

Post by manigandham »

kerkeslager wrote: post #177
cm2012 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should strive to take away the option of knowledge from the poor, so they can be happy with their place in society.

Advertising doesn't contain knowledge. It's like a stopped clock: even when it's correct, you don't know it's correct, because most of the time it's not correct. And more critically, even when it is correct, it's not the complete story. I've never seen an ad that admits that their competitor's product is cheaper, or better. In fact, most ads don't even want you to know their competitor exists. So let's not pretend ad…

The knowledge is that product exists, followed by its purpose, features and benefits to you. Why would they tell you about a competitor?
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