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Medications that change who we are

bbc.com

171–180 of 289 posts

Re: Medications that change who we are

#171
I suggest folks read the cited research. It's eye-opening here, in a way that's very irritiating. This does not seem like particularly good science journalism.

Because of the road rage story in the lede, a whole lot of people are going to walk away from that piece thinking Statins -> Aggression.

The author even repeats it in a troubling way by linking to Golomb's research (their main source for this article I imagine) on statins and aggression:

"Since then, more direct evidence has emerged. Several studies have supported a potential link between irritability and statins, including a randomised controlled trial – the gold-standard of scientific research – that Golomb led, involving more than 1,000 people. It found that the drug increased aggression in post-menopausal women though, oddly, not in men."

You can see right there - it's plain as day. Randomised controlled trial, gold standard. The really astute scientists now know statins make people aggressive!

Except, EXCEPT... the study that Golomb DID found that statins overall lowered aggression... in men, and did not raise it in pre-menopausal women.

Again, the paper the journalist linked to shows the OPPOSITE of what the BBC piece claims it does.

The only reason the author found a subset of people that statins increase aggression in: they sliced and dice their data a bajillion different ways. They looked at age strata, baseline aggression, sleep-status, serotonin status, until they found a group -- post meno-pausal women -- in which the statin appeared to increase aggression. And that was only significant when they excluded one participant who had medically induced menopause!

"Among (postmenopausal) women, a borderline aggression-increase on statins became significant with exclusion of one younger, surgically-menopausal woman (N=310) β=0.70(SE=0.34)P=0.039"

When you adjust for multiple comparisons done (otherwise pretty sure you're just p-hacking) the result for women becomes statistically insignificant --which, given the number of ways they sliced the data, is not at all surprising!

"The sample size for women is half that for men, calculations did not power separately for women, and significance of findings for women would not be sustained under multiple comparison adjustment."

The overall thrust of 'Be a medical conservative, it's easy to cause treatment related harms you're not aware of' is a good one - there are many pharma companies pushing product on iffy claims. And a lot of research that shows how pharma trials minimize side effects and maximize results by surreptitiously excluding unhealthy trial participants.

The research in this piece is neither brilliant, nor awful... but given that the author appears to happily be quoted in a way that takes their research out of context, and seems to be the main source in an article that makes claims that their research does not support, really concerns me that they have their own flawed biases on statins ...

Re: Medications that change who we are

#172

I am very curious about how transgender HRT affects personality. In a sense, HRT is supposed to change who one is, but the personality changes people undergo on it seem underappreciated and not really understood or studied clinically. At least I have not been able to find a published study specifically about about how HRT changes personality. I think not all of it can be attributed to decreased gender dysphoria or pe…

It could be but I used to look at studies about roid rage and found back then that there was not that much support for increased aggression, at least not when using testosterone and in moderate dosages for bodybuilding (which are very large dosages compared to replacement therapy).

On the other hand I'm pretty sure when we are talking really strong AAS such trendbolone there is so much anecdotal evidence that people get aggressive that I have no problem buying it in that case.

Never done any AAS but been prescribed corticosteroids (prednisone) which is an anti-inflammatory and that sure as hell changes the mood for me and many others. It is on the side-effects list as well I think and personally can get more irritated on it. Not always but it is noticable.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#173
Along with other commenters -- thank you for sharing! -- I've also had psychoactive side effects.

TLDR: Self reporting simply doesn't work. We need better tools, strategies. We need before, during, and after assessments. We need to inform the people in our lives, so we can better monitor each other's mental state and keep each other accountable.

Most recently: Started bupropion after a surgery, in hopes of mitigating impact. Got caught in a rut. Took myself off (all of my meds), just to reset. I felt zero difference on or off the bupropion. The only way I knew something was different was the activity monitor on my Apple Watch. (Just to be sure, I resumed bupropion for a week, and I became lethargic again. Again, I felt zero difference mentally.)

Ages ago: I was very high dose prednisone for a long time. Completely changed my personality. I was more or less completely out of control, a human wrecking ball. I reported mania, suicidal thoughts, etc. My team of doctors completely dismissed such possibilities. Of course, none of them, nor any of their patients, had received as much prednisone as me. Even after stopping prednisone, it took years to find a new normal. I was active volunteering afterwards. I advised both patients and their families what the prednisone (and other drugs like chemo) was going to do to do. Strongly encouraged seeking professional counseling, with their eyes wide open.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#174
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not some special thing that sits apart from it. It is an integral part of the whole, no different than your kidneys or liver. Except it is. The brain is a part of your body and the two are tightly integrated. Yet the brain is also not simply another organ. If you lose half of your liver, your personality might change due to the trauma, but you will still be you. If you lose a kidney, you’ll live on as if littl…

As an aside there is also the testis-blood-barrier, although this is not quite as tight as the blood brain barrier.

Also, personalities tend to change if the testes are removed.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem goes at least as far back as Plato and the allegory of the cave. Plato spread this concept that there was a difference between the body and mind or soul, and Western culture has never really recovered from the stupidity of that idea. There's really no evidence or justification for it. Your mind and your body are the same thing.

My Python code ultimately runs on a circuit, but it feels lacking to say that my program is the circuitry. The program itself only has meaning inside of my mind, and in fact could exist equally well on paper. It exists conceptually even if it never manifests physically. So where do concepts like this exist, given that they don't exist as matter? What do we mean when we say that something like 1+1=2 is true - that tha…

Google embodied cognition - while it is true semantics can be separated from the physicality of the incarnation of the system for simple software things, it seems likely any digital representation of the mind will include a lot of data about the material facts of wet brains, chemicals, diffusion, weird coincidences between same gene pathways affecting multiple systems and all.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#176
post #109
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not some special thing that sits apart from it. It is an integral part of the whole, no different than your kidneys or liver. Except it is. The brain is a part of your body and the two are tightly integrated. Yet the brain is also not simply another organ. If you lose half of your liver, your personality might change due to the trauma, but you will still be you. If you lose a kidney, you’ll live on as if littl…

“If you lose half your brain, you’re probably dead, and if not, you’ll be drastically impaired the rest of your life.” Depends. Patients who undergo hemispherectomy at a very young age can recover remarkably well; a testament to the incredible plasticity of the developing brain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemispherectomy In adult brains, yeah, it’s a very different story. See also: stroke. Honestly, you’re both ri…

This is probably an example of an "exception that proves the rule".

Re: Medications that change who we are

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you lose half your brain, you’re probably dead, and if not, you’ll be drastically impaired the rest of your life. You’ll also likely experience drastic personality changes. That's...not at all what the actual results of a hemispherectomy, in which you literally lose half of your brain, show.

And yet an unlucky blow to the head can alter you forever. It’s not black and white.

And a change to your gut biome can have drastic effects on your personality, with many leading psychiatrists thinking there may be an inherent link to gut bacteria and clinical depression.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem goes at least as far back as Plato and the allegory of the cave. Plato spread this concept that there was a difference between the body and mind or soul, and Western culture has never really recovered from the stupidity of that idea. There's really no evidence or justification for it. Your mind and your body are the same thing.

> Your mind and your body are the same thing. That is incorrect, but unfortunately a very common misunderstanding. The mind is highly correlated with the brain but it is not the brain. It’s easy to see this is the case because the brain is made up of a qualitatively different material than the mind. While the brain is composed of biological cells / chemistry / atoms, the mind is composed of things like sense-percepti…

From the viewpoint of the mind, red is an illusion or perhaps a conventional way of organizing experiences. From the view point of the body, red is an emergent phenomena. Color is an interesting example because people literally don’t see colors that their languages do not differentiate: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/segments/21121...

Re: Medications that change who we are

#179
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem goes at least as far back as Plato and the allegory of the cave. Plato spread this concept that there was a difference between the body and mind or soul, and Western culture has never really recovered from the stupidity of that idea. There's really no evidence or justification for it. Your mind and your body are the same thing.

I believe the mind, or soul, is indeed in the brain. But it's also separate. It's more like software controlling the hardware. Take self control and attention. How many people struggle with it, procrastinating? You want to do something, you know you have to do it, you like doing it... But you don't. Because your brain doesn't listen to your mind. Because the brain is mostly a primitive autonomous system and needs to…

I think the battle in procrastination is not between the brain and something outside but between different parts of the brain, one favoring a long term perspective and others favoring immediate gratification.

Re: Medications that change who we are

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside there is also the testis-blood-barrier, although this is not quite as tight as the blood brain barrier.

Also, personalities tend to change if the testes are removed.

There's a huge family of "Neurosteroids"[1], which impact various receptors in the brain in lots of super complicated ways that aren't entirely understood. They are synthesized in all kinds of ways naturally, and when it comes to "what they do" in terms of personality... "probably something" is the best we can do.

There is massive complexity in all these things, all kinds of feedback mechanisms, genes and enzymes involved, etc. They do something but it's hard to say what exactly.

I know about this personally; one of the amazing things about transgender medicine is that there is a huge range of responses to the hormones involved, and there's honestly no way to predict what will happen with a given person.

There are tendencies in aggregate - like less testosterone = less libido - but how those come about biologically is unclear and the effect varies tremendously between different people.

It's a joke to pretend like we fully understand or can predict how any of these things actually impact our lived experiences beyond very rough, bulk tendencies.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurosteroid

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