Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018)

alexand.ro

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 218 posts

Re: Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018)

#171

Post by vorpalhex »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #20

As someone that is "on the spectrum," I can report that focus can be pretty awesome. I generate vast amounts of code, in relatively short time, and am an insanely obsessive debugger. However, it don't come for free. If I get "roused" from my "fugue" (what I call "the zone"), I can be cranky. This has not always been helpful in my marriage. Also, I find that I can be "vocabularily challenged" for a few minutes after I…

I absolutely get this and not just with code - modeling, deep reading, even some simulator style games.

I find my lingual knots tend to get worked out after a short while, but if I have been exceptionally deep focused I can get almost a focus hangover where the lingual hangups last a very long time.

I know most theories about tasks using only one hemisphere of the brain have been debunked but it does seem like language and some logic tasks can be at odds. I wonder if it extends into other things than language.

Re: Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018)

#172

Post by bsanr »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #85
bsanr wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be nice, if most workplaces valued efficiency. They don't, especially at the low end. Instead, they'd rather have face-time, regardless of how productive that time is. It's literally in the nature of the pay structure.

Depending on the specifics of the work, in our industry, demand for butt-in-seat time + high focus = work done + a lot of time to do your own private stuff. Devil is in the details, but this is implicitly accepted in a lot of places as long as you complete your actual work on time, because part of the reason companies want your butt in your seat for fixed amount of time per day is availability - if something suddenly…

"Do your own stuff when you've finished your assigned tasks" is dicey for a couple of reasons:

1) You could be in a position where the work "never" ends. For sure, there are a reasonable number of tasks expected to be done at the end of the day, working some fraction of the day's butt-in-seat time; and when they're done, the business runs smoothly. However, recognizing this, businesses will add tasks that could be automated or designed away (e.g., answering the same inane help-desk tickets, which pile up constantly), because they "help" to secure an employee's "engagement" when they'd otherwise be free to study, optimize their performance, or simply socialize. If you're seen doing any of these, rather than the assigned tasks, you'll be docked.

2) It's difficult to bounce between tasks, including from your work-work to your personal work and back again. This is a sure-fire recipe for not being able to maintain, or even cultivate, focus. To add insult to injury, workers are often dealing with a scenario where "availability" is required of them to mask inefficiencies in the business' management or administration. This task could be done remotely, that one could be automated, a third could be grouped with a fourth if someone twisted arms to get the necessary data earlier (as has proven possible on days before a holiday). Allocating the 2 or 3 hours of the day not spent directly on work tasks would then be possible, but not when they're spread out over the course of an 8+ hour day in 10 minute chunks, or eaten up by busy work. "Hurry up and wait" is a productivity-killer.

Re: Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018)

#173

Post by james_s_tayler »

bearer_token wrote: post #54
300bps wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One tactic I've learned is to set aside time to focus on relaxation. I got the exact opposite advice from "The War of Art" by Steven Pressfield: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1319.The_War_of_Art The entire book is how to overcome what he calls "resistance" which is what prevents you from getting creative work done. He says the belief that you need relaxation is false and just another way your mind keeps you fro…

Interesting. I tend to structure my day around goals and work so much that I don't leave enough time for relaxation. I likely mistakenly assume most HNers are overly ambitious, perfectionist, neurotic types like myself. I have no trouble getting started, I have trouble stopping.

>I have no trouble getting started, I have trouble stopping.

I can relate. It has its pros and cons. There are definitely days I wish I could turn the ambition off or at least down, but it's stuck on high. The upside is life's never boring. The downside is it's always non-stop.

Re: Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018)

#174

Post by feanaro »

rckoepke wrote: post #150
feanaro wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it doesn't help to fear that one wasted day will lead to this chain.

For a year or two I had a mantra: "A day is a length of time that no man is rich enough to waste". It wasn't grammatically/syntactically valid, but it worked well as a token for a concept that helped me immensely those years.

I guess it depends on your personality. Fear-based tactics don't usually work well on me, they just make me anxious about what I am supposedly going to lose. Once I realize that there is in fact nothing to lose, I can relax and handle things effortlessly.

Re: Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018)

#175

Post by james_s_tayler »

arez wrote: post #44

One aspect nobody mentioned so far is, why do I have to focus so much on my dreams and "work on the next rocket to mars"? Why isn't it okay anymore to just do my job, have friends and watch movies? Why does everyone has to be an entrepreneur and do a successful side-project? Why can't I just have a hobby that doesn't pay off at all, like playing an instrument alone in my room, without any pursue to ever play a concer…

You totally can. Many people do. The people that do aren't the target audience of these kind of articles. It's simply not relevant to them. And that's OK.

Re: Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018)

#176

Post by james_s_tayler »

arez wrote: post #71
TeMPOraL wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selection bias. Nobody says you have to be like that. Just ignore the article and move on. For me, it resonates, because the perspective of "doing my job, having friends and watching movies" sounds depressingly empty to me. I want to work on the next rocket to Mars (yes, I really do want to work on space rockets - because I care about space rockets). I don't buy into the pressure you're seeing either. If your heart d…

it's not just this article. I feel the pressure in my every day life. I already have a job that fulfills me and where I give 100%, does that mean I will be the next CTO, no probably not, so I can't even claim to push my career that much. It's just that you read online about all these people that do open-source stuff, create their own website/business, build tools, do research etc. that you feel left out and the big p…

Think of them like the 1% of the tech community. Yes, it can be done. No it's likely you it will be you. And that's fine. Though it can feel like "how the hell are these insanely productive people able to do all this stuff when I can barely even brush my teeth twice a day?".

Don't sweat it. Just like there are billionaires, there are also these mystical productivity billionaires. It's a cool thing to behold but it's very much not the norm.

Re: Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018)

#177

Post by pplonski86 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #136
_ptgt wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this resonate with anyone else? Is there any studies on this? I’ve had a similar experience over the past few years — a ton of work focus (at a FAANGM as an ML scientist/engineer) combined with limited social interaction and I’ve noticed my ability to have normal social interactions has declined greatly (“verbally inept” and “difficulty with empathy” pretty much hit it on the head). There’s potentially confoundi…

It resonates with me. I hit that once, at my 2nd year at university, as I was in a pretty bad emotional state which almost led me to drop off. Something clicked in my brain then, and I rebounded to extreme levels of drive and productivity (and a weird sense of humor). I nailed that year, went straight from "doesn't even attend classes" to the best student on the year. I earned a pretty good reputation with both my fe…

Music helps for me. Try to listen music that makes you feel better. I can listen one track in the loop for the whole day and work.

Re: Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018)

#178

Post by IvanVergiliev »

Roritharr wrote: post #145
_ptgt wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this resonate with anyone else? Is there any studies on this? I’ve had a similar experience over the past few years — a ton of work focus (at a FAANGM as an ML scientist/engineer) combined with limited social interaction and I’ve noticed my ability to have normal social interactions has declined greatly (“verbally inept” and “difficulty with empathy” pretty much hit it on the head). There’s potentially confoundi…

It resonates with me from a different direction. Up until I've become a dad I could crank out vast amounts of code and dive very deep into a given topic relatively quickly, producing extensive results when being able to focus, but since then I have a strict schedule, can't easily say "I'm coming home a few hours later today" or things like that to conserve momentum, I feel my output drastically reduced. I'm currently…

I’ve found it extremely useful to keep a detailed log of my thoughts and ideas as I’m working on a problem that requires focus. It’s like a thread dump or memory dump of my thinking. Then, if I get interrupted for whatever reason, I can easily go back to the notes and “restore” from the thread dump.

This is a pretty good blog post I found on the subject: http://faq.sealedabstract.com/uninterruptible_programming_su... .

I’ve found various side benefits in addition to being able to focus in shorter time windows. For example:

- it’s useful for dealing with interruptions that are part of work too - e.g. if you’re helping teammates with different projects, or have to switch contexts for other reasons.

- it can be useful as an artifact of work. For example, you’ve spent a lot of time debugging a weird issue and you’re still not making progress, so you can use a second set of eyes. You can share your work notes with a coworker so they can immediately know what you’ve tried, what worked or didn’t, etc. In that context, I like to think of it as “offline pair programming”.

Re: Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018)

#179

Post by friendlybus »

sscarduzio wrote: post #90
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #20

As someone that is "on the spectrum," I can report that focus can be pretty awesome. I generate vast amounts of code, in relatively short time, and am an insanely obsessive debugger. However, it don't come for free. If I get "roused" from my "fugue" (what I call "the zone"), I can be cranky. This has not always been helpful in my marriage. Also, I find that I can be "vocabularily challenged" for a few minutes after I…

I have been experiencing exactly this in the last 10 years without being aware it was a side effect of high focus. 10 years ago I was really bad at studying, then I had a peak of low self esteem, believing I was not intelligent. Ready to give up uni, my GF suggested I'd give myself only one more opportunity. So I started studying like it was the very last time I'd do it. Like, in an angry state, like I was demonstrat…

This makes a lot of sense. I get glimpses of that, particularly when taking stress as seriously as I can. Interacting with others, sharing personal responsibility or unneeded comfort pulls me out of it. Thanks for the anecdote!

Re: Focus has become more valuable than intelligence (2018)

#180

Post by seer »

_ptgt wrote: post #112
sscarduzio wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been experiencing exactly this in the last 10 years without being aware it was a side effect of high focus. 10 years ago I was really bad at studying, then I had a peak of low self esteem, believing I was not intelligent. Ready to give up uni, my GF suggested I'd give myself only one more opportunity. So I started studying like it was the very last time I'd do it. Like, in an angry state, like I was demonstrat…

Does this resonate with anyone else? Is there any studies on this? I’ve had a similar experience over the past few years — a ton of work focus (at a FAANGM as an ML scientist/engineer) combined with limited social interaction and I’ve noticed my ability to have normal social interactions has declined greatly (“verbally inept” and “difficulty with empathy” pretty much hit it on the head). There’s potentially confoundi…

I have definitely noticed this in myself and others - after coming out of an intense “in the zone” coding session I’m definitely more cranky and impulsive.

While this is strictly anecdotal, I do believe there is a tight correlation with focus, social and emotional intelligence. In the sense that if I devote all of my “brainpower” to solving a task, I do reduce my ability to understand social queues and other “left brain” stuff.

But as I’ve taken some time to understand my fellow humans better - deliberately putting myself in social situations and reading some great books about it, I’ve noticed the amount of energy required to “process other people” in my brain reducing greatly. This kinda gave me the ability to be pleasant even after doing some coding.

I can think about it like encountering an embedded language inside my templates or something. Like maybe javascript inside html templates.

If I feel comfortable with that language, I don’t even skip a beat, whereas if its something I’m not exactly fluent in, it gets me cranky - who put this in here and ruined its purity kinda feeling.

So it gets better with time, but I had to put deliberate effort into it.

Post reply on HN