Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground • Hacker News Board

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#171

Post by jarekkruk » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 1:20 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #132

anigbrowl wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some feminists surely do, but conflating some with all is a fallacy of composition that hinders discussion. Your reasoning in the rest of the comment seems rather questionable and veers into seeming even more like a generalization.

However GP didn't say "all feminists", only "feminists". If I say "Germans eat bread for breakfast" that's generally understood to mean "In general Germans eat bread for breakfast" or "A majority of Germans eat bread for breakfast". Treating it as if I said "Every German eats bread for every breakfast" would be constructing a straw man. People generally understand that there is variation in every group, even if they…

It is not exactly comparable. Prostitution is an important issue in feminism. Statement "environmentalists support nuclear power" would be a better analogy, because many environmentalists are for nuclear power and many are against.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#172

Post by overcast » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 1:24 PM UTC

bdhdbbdbdjdns wrote: post #104

As an occasional consumer of sex work, here is the reality: yes, It’s more dangerous now for both parties, but much more so for the women. The labor supply has gone down sharply because the economics went upside down. If you can’t count on as many clients per day the fixed cost of the hotel room becomes harder to risk so many girls exited the market. Prices have gone up sharply. The kind of girls that were charging $…

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, what is your use case for paying for sex? Married? High powered executive? I can't imagine paying for something that is easily free on a million different dating apps.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#173

Post by excalibur » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 1:24 PM UTC

jrochkind1 wrote: post #22

You mean exactly how sex workers said it would, but nobody listened to them, because it was never actually about protecting sex workers or victims of sex trafficking? https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sex-workers-bill-fosta-sesta_... https://medium.com/voices/while-america-gawks-at-stormy-dani...

> You mean exactly how sex workers said it would, but nobody listened to them, because it was never actually about protecting sex workers or victims of sex trafficking?

Yes, exactly like that, except it's inaccurate to say that "nobody" listened to them. Many people expressed outrage at the time. We just failed to get big tech and its lobbyists on our side, so Congress was deaf to it.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#174

Post by a483838 » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 1:25 PM UTC

friendly_fren wrote: post #157

catalogia wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another socially responsible escort ad site was owned by a woman (former sex worker) and was forced to sell to a very shady eastern european gentlemen who is referred to as the trafficking king of europe. She sold because she didn’t want to go to jail. Was shutting it down somehow not an option? Better to shut it down than to give it to a gangster.

It is far more likely she got doxxed and the king of Europe was threatening her.

Wrong. The buyer had been interested in the site for years. When the decision to sell was made this person was the first contact.

Only after the sale was complete did she realize who she dealt with. It was done through lawyers.

The site sold for 8 figures.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#175

Post by scotty79 » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 1:25 PM UTC

boomboomsubban wrote: post #11

Iv wrote: post #4

What is sad is that there are a lot of real-size social experiments in various countries that have a variety of legislation and situation and a ton of literature to guide policy there. I have (like everybody) some opinions on how sex should work and what limits paid sex should have. I'll just say that: My preferences are totally irrelevant and should be dismissed if they have any chance of increasing human traffickin…

Then put everyone under 24 hour surveillance. That is the only logical choice given your goals. If you allow someone any amount of freedom, you can't be sure they won't used it this try and enslave someone else.

That's a silly argument. You could equally rightly say that we should just execute everybody because if they are breathing they can enslave someone. Clearly parent didn't mean trivial solutions are the "best" because they achieve the goal 100% but require destroying everything else.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#176

Post by jandrese » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 1:26 PM UTC

overcast wrote: post #172

bdhdbbdbdjdns wrote: post #104

As an occasional consumer of sex work, here is the reality: yes, It’s more dangerous now for both parties, but much more so for the women. The labor supply has gone down sharply because the economics went upside down. If you can’t count on as many clients per day the fixed cost of the hotel room becomes harder to risk so many girls exited the market. Prices have gone up sharply. The kind of girls that were charging $…

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, what is your use case for paying for sex? Married? High powered executive? I can't imagine paying for something that is easily free on a million different dating apps.

Not to be too mean here, but perhaps the OP doesn't have an easy time finding willing partners in the traditional dating scene. Maybe they have the kind of look that makes women swipe left.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#177

Post by jandrese » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 1:29 PM UTC

excalibur wrote: post #173

jrochkind1 wrote: post #22

You mean exactly how sex workers said it would, but nobody listened to them, because it was never actually about protecting sex workers or victims of sex trafficking? https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sex-workers-bill-fosta-sesta_... https://medium.com/voices/while-america-gawks-at-stormy-dani...

> You mean exactly how sex workers said it would, but nobody listened to them, because it was never actually about protecting sex workers or victims of sex trafficking? Yes, exactly like that, except it's inaccurate to say that "nobody" listened to them. Many people expressed outrage at the time. We just failed to get big tech and its lobbyists on our side, so Congress was deaf to it.

It's extremely hard to find a voice in government when your position is pro-hooker. These people don't want their opponent to be running the "Your Representative is for the sexual exploitation of women!" ads.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#178

Post by di4na » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 1:32 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #176

overcast wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, what is your use case for paying for sex? Married? High powered executive? I can't imagine paying for something that is easily free on a million different dating apps.

Not to be too mean here, but perhaps the OP doesn't have an easy time finding willing partners in the traditional dating scene. Maybe they have the kind of look that makes women swipe left.

Or maybe they prefer to pay to not have to spend their time going through the whole pain to find someone, make them interested, etc etc all with the risk of being for nothing. If you have the money, it is a good way to cut on time spent.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#179

Post by jandrese » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 1:32 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #78

hiram112 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just the religious right that pushes for backwards prostitution laws. It is also... feminists. Aren't feminists always going on about "my body, my right" when it comes to abortion and other forms of contraceptives? Of course, but when it comes to prostitution, they seem to take a 'differing' view. Why? When prostitution is decriminalized, the price of sex goes down, as would be expected in any market where t…

Some feminists surely do, but conflating some with all is a fallacy of composition that hinders discussion. Your reasoning in the rest of the comment seems rather questionable and veers into seeming even more like a generalization.

There's even a well known shorthand for the subset of feminists that carve out exceptions for sex workers: SWERF. Sex Worker Exclusionary Radical Feminist.

This is not a new issue.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#180

Post by k__ » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 1:34 PM UTC

3131s wrote: post #41

k__ wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know the problem here in Germany is legalization. They could simply have decriminalized prostitution and leave procuration illegal, but no, they had to throw around with laws to make the live of sex-workers harder.

Why is that making sex workers lives harder?

If they have to follow more laws, their work gets harder.

If prostitution was just decriminalized, their work would just have been easier, it would have been a normal job like every other job.