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Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

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Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#171

Post by Gibbon1 »

papreclip wrote: post #169
qaq wrote: post #16

I like how people get outraged at US tech giants but gracefully ignore the fact that Glencore which actually is the beneficiary of exploiting the children is based in Europe. It's no small target either with annual revenue of 219.8 billion in 2018 vs Google's 136.

People really seem to be sharpening the axe for our big tech companies these days. Personally I find it disturbing. These companies are a river of prosperity for our people, especially software developers

Um... Only software developers.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#172

Post by jessaustin »

bryan_w wrote: post #162
celticmusic wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seriously. How the fuck are people's moral compass so off? I understand reality is reality, but there are some things that should not be, and for slightly cheaper electronics of all things? fuck that.

I mean, you typed that message using something that probably has cobalt inside of it or used cobalt in it's manufacturing. So... why is your moral compass so off?

We're told that governments help us solve collective action problems. If it's hard for a single electronics manufacturer to wean itself from conflict cobalt, the government could help them by forcing all electronics manufacturers to cease purchase of conflict cobalt.

Of course, that isn't the real purpose of governments or any other illegitimate authorities, so I won't hold my breath.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#173

Post by [deleted] »

celticmusic wrote: post #138
solidasparagus wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree, but if we want to actually help, we need to work with the world the way it is, not the way we wish it was. Moral grandstanding helps us feel good more than it helps the people who are actually suffering. There will always be uncertainty about the supply chain. That's the nature of the mineral trade AFAIK.

taking the stance that the exploitation of children is unacceptable and punishing anyone who does work with those who exploit children is not moral grandstanding.

[deleted]

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#174

Post by TallGuyShort »

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #6

I feel like this is essentially trying to sue capitalism. Of course most raw materials people get is essentially sourced from exploitation. That's just the result of buying for the cheapest cost. People don't like seeing how the sausage gets made, like the John Oliver segment on children making clothes, if they shut this down it will just pop up again with another company...

If legal precedents start getting made that you have to stop using a vendor once it's exposed that they're using unethical labor practices like this, perhaps even with punitive damages for not doing due diligence yourself, it gets harder and harder every time.

I'm no fan of unenforceable laws that just push problems further out of sight, but I don't think that's the case here.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#175

Post by supernova87a »

The unfortunate thing about this whole situation is that, much like the conflict diamond issue, whether or not these companies are directly responsible due to this specific industry, it is merely a reflection of the terrible state of affairs and human rights in these countries. And stopping mining probably wouldn't improve things much.

Even if these companies (or we as consumers) were to stop doing business and pull out of these mining industries, the conflict and suffering in such countries would simply move to some other industry. The people and children would be toiling in agriculture, fishing, maybe piracy, or slave trade. And I do not delude myself to think that the supervisors in those industries are much more charitable than in mining.

While fixing the problems of mining should be done, the underlying root causes of kids having to mine cobalt would not disappear. So think more deliberately about whether band-aiding this one symptom will let you wake up with a clear conscience tomorrow.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#176

Post by sharpneli »

celticmusic wrote: post #129
solidasparagus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this makes much sense. The mineral supply chain in that part of the world is ridiculously hard to track. Even when you stop buying directly from the DRC, the minerals flow over the borders (see how Rwandan coltan exports jumped when people stopped buying DRC 'conflict' coltan). That part of the DRC is basically beyond the reach of the Congolese government and the bordering countries have been waging pro…

> I don't think this makes much sense. Let me see if I can put it into terms you can understand. They prosecute people who look at child porn. Not because those people abused the children, but because those people create the demand that causes the producers to abuse children. You decrease the demand, you decrease the abuse. Or in another form. If you really want to stop illegal immigration, you go after the people em…

Banning cobalt alltogether?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt#Applications

You’d literally make usage of an element illegal due to that. For me it sounds bit of an overreaction.

Also it would be more than tad unfair for the cobalt mines not in DRC to have to close up.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#177

Post by bluGill »

jacquesm wrote: post #142
neuroticfish wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yet, somehow, a multiBILLION dollar company can just buy material from warlords or whatever tribe in remote parts of China, and ship MILLIONS OF POUNDS of it out of that region, but nobody can get a fucking receipt? What normally happens in this process is that the selling country's government official who is tasked with verifying the integrity of the receipt is bribed with a month or more salary to sign the exchang…

Wasn't bribery illegal?

So? Who is going to know or enforce it?

Most bribes are not obvious. More like give money to the charity my brother in law runs. The charity even does some good, but the real purpose is to pay the brother in law a nice salary and pay for family trips to various places the charity operates. (You should be suspicious anytime the family of a politician has any association with a charity - it might be a real charity but often it is a way to hide bribes)

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#178

Post by JulianMorrison »

solidasparagus wrote: post #132
mcv wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It being hard to track is no excuse. We shouldn't be buying products from such abusive practices. We banned slavery, child labour and other abusive practices in our own countries, but by allowing the imports of such products from other countries, we're still indirectly making use of slavery and child labour. Recently I heard that every person in a wealthy country effectively makes use of two slaves this way. So these…

I don't disagree, but if we want to actually help, we need to work with the world the way it is, not the way we wish it was. Moral grandstanding helps us feel good more than it helps the people who are actually suffering. There will always be uncertainty about the supply chain. That's the nature of the mineral trade AFAIK.

> I don't disagree, but if we want to actually help, we need to work with the world the way it is

...said the people opposing abolitionism.

Reality: to achieve moral progress, sometimes you need to eat an economic recession. Suck it up, buttercup.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#179

Post by tssva »

celticmusic wrote: post #138
solidasparagus wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree, but if we want to actually help, we need to work with the world the way it is, not the way we wish it was. Moral grandstanding helps us feel good more than it helps the people who are actually suffering. There will always be uncertainty about the supply chain. That's the nature of the mineral trade AFAIK.

taking the stance that the exploitation of children is unacceptable and punishing anyone who does work with those who exploit children is not moral grandstanding.

Didn't the parents that are suing exploit their kids for economic gain? Why should they now be rewarded with profit from a lawsuit rather than imprisoned for doing so?

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#180

Post by hanniabu »

pnako wrote: post #143
soared wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adjusting the supply of cobalt in a country isn't something thats easily adjusted.

Why not? If half of the supply disappears overnight, prices will go through the roof, providing an incentive for current producers to increase output, by increasing effort in their existing mining operations, and more than likely by opening new operations.

If there are sanctions, wouldn't it be the demand being changed and not the supply?
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