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France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

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Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#171
post #91
post #3

In today's world of race to the finish (/ bottom) journalism, I think it should be mandatory for all publications to have an addendum to each article, which contains: * list of sources of information and original research conducted ( including names of interviewees, only anonymized with a justification, links, etc ) * a sign-off by a journalist (note: not supposed to imply responsibility or liability for accuracy of…

And make journalism a registered profession like doctors, dentists, structural engineers, architects etc with a legally enforced professional code of conduct. Every article should be cryptographically signed by the journalist in a way that links to their professional registration. If a story is found to be inaccurate then this gets noted on the journalists professional reputation page at the 'institute of journalists…

>And make journalism a registered profession like doctors, dentists, structural engineers, architects etc with a legally enforced professional code of conduct

Here I'm thinking, "If i were a dictator, this would be a really fantastic way to control the narrative".

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This story is so odd to me. On the one hand, if true, all Bloomberg had to do was produce evidence; a single compromised server. They didn't. On the other hand, if the journalists fabricated the entire story, saying that all these big companies were hacked, why didn't anybody sue them? It was a major accusation! It just kinda...disappeared.

And Bloomberg never retracted it. It’s still up on their site. Not even an editors note acknowledging the criticism. I agree it’s all very odd. I wonder if we’ll ever get the story behind the story.

There is nothing secret. Bloomberg pays reporters to move markets, not to tell facts. This one moved markets, so it was a good story.

I suppose it has other uses too, like making Michael Bloomberg look good.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#173
post #3

In today's world of race to the finish (/ bottom) journalism, I think it should be mandatory for all publications to have an addendum to each article, which contains: * list of sources of information and original research conducted ( including names of interviewees, only anonymized with a justification, links, etc ) * a sign-off by a journalist (note: not supposed to imply responsibility or liability for accuracy of…

Journalism in a large part is just propaganda tool of different factions. Regulation is applied by humans and humans are biased by their investment in different interests. Citizens should realize that every piece of news that they read are biased and need to do their own home work carefully. If they cannot or are not willing to do proper homework the next best idea is to trust no oneone and only care about local issues.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#174
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this accusation thrown out there on social media a few times now. When I've asked for examples, no one been able to provide a list showing that this is actually a systemic problem. With resources like the Internet Archive it should be trivial to prove that this really a problem. Can you back up your claims? Journalists are people and make mistakes. But overall, respected institutions like NYT, WSJ, WaPo, an…

You mentioned WaPo. Here is an article[0] about WaPo publishing a story about "Russian hackers infiltrating a US electrical grid." In addition to the article being inaccurate, WaPo edited the copy several times to correct major errors of fact without adding an editorial note and refused to explain what led them to their incorrect conclusions. The article is a bit too long to accurately summarise, but essentially WaPo…

I'll suggest an alternative theory.

You know how absurd and wrong the Russia/powergrid story is specifically because this is your industry. If this wasn't your industry, you would read it, not have the understanding and experience to critique, and therefore probably believe it.. even if it was later retracted. The same applies to us reading about other fields.

My wife was a Capital Hill reporter in DC. Quite often, she had an hour or two to turn around a story on a hearing that just occurred on a topic she didn't know. Now multiply that by 4, 5, or 10 times each day.

It doesn't take maliciousness, just incompetence and/or ignorance at scale.

Michael Crichton named this:

"Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them."

Ref: http://larvatus.com/michael-crichton-why-speculate/

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#175
post #18

Here's a non-paywalled version via Reuters (who, it should be said, is a Bloomberg competitor in the financial news space): https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-amf-bloomberg/fran... Here's a more in-depth explanation from 2017 (the incident happened in 2016): https://www.complianceweek.com/the-vinci-code-fake-news-pres...

We've changed to the Reuters article from https://news.bloomberglaw.com/securities-law/bloomberg-lp-fi.... Thanks!

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#176
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be happy just if they were forbidden to change articles after publishing, and not say that. Because currently, they post some bullshit news and create some random outrage. Then someone points at some bullshit claim in their article, and they just quietly change the article (remove the claim, add "allegedly", etc.), and act as nothing was wrong. Or in worst case scenario, they quietly remove the whole article.

I've seen this accusation thrown out there on social media a few times now. When I've asked for examples, no one been able to provide a list showing that this is actually a systemic problem. With resources like the Internet Archive it should be trivial to prove that this really a problem. Can you back up your claims? Journalists are people and make mistakes. But overall, respected institutions like NYT, WSJ, WaPo, an…

I am as journalist-sympathetic as anyone on here, but even I would agree with the previous commenter's sentiment. Minimization of errors is an old and persistent problem in journalism, and the reasons for this can be relatively innocuous – e.g. general incompetence and complacency; not only in making the error, but also not having a system in place to collect and evaluate feedback/complaints from readers, nor to adequately disseminate a correction if one has been made – to outright dishonesty and cowardice (errors are generally a stain on a journalist's professional career).

The best argument that this is a systemic problem is to simply point out the lack of systemic accountability: as people have pointed out, no major news site has a diff/version history (even though most content management systems have some kind of version tracking), which would be the bare minimum (and best return on value) for digital publishers who prioritize accountability.

(The closest thing is newsdiffs.org, but that's an independent site [0])

If you want a real, recent error that illustrates the low importance of media corrections, I can give you one from this past week: when the New York Times erroneously reported that the Trump administration issued an executive order that would "define Judaism as a nationality". Here's a relevant excerpt from the earliest Internet Archive version of the article [1]:

> Mr. Trump’s order will declare that Judaism may be considered a national origin.

To say that this article caused a violent orgasm of Twitter fury and shock would be a vast understatement; you can search for tweets quote-tweeting the original @nytpolitics tweet to see for yourself. [2].

A few hours later, the NYT article had been significantly updated [3], with no correction or comment by the main NYT social media accounts, or by the individual reporters' Twitters (which are both very active). This is how the aforementioned excerpt was changed (and how it currently is as of today):

> Mr. Trump’s order will have the effect of embracing an argument that Jews are a people or a race with a collective national origin in the Middle East, like Italian Americans or Polish Americans

If the significance of the change isn't self-evident, then this tweet thread+article goes into detail about how big of a clusterfuck the original NYT article was [4].

To my knowledge, the NYT has said nothing about the mistake or the silent correction. Neither have the reporters. And as much outrage as the original article caused, it was all quickly forgotten (even faster than usual) because the mass shooting at the kosher market [5] and the UK elections the next day.

To me, this incident is emblematic of how their accountability is systemically lackadaisical. It's undeniable that the NYT does make corrections, but we only know of the errors that were noticed and were officially corrected. By definition, we can't easily know the errors that were never noticed, or were silently fixed.

In this situation, we have an error that is as egregious and infuriating as one can imagine in today's politics (Trump + executive authority + anti-Semitism + Israel v. Palestine). But also, this is a serious error that ultimately had no consequences, because the original report was attributed to anonymous sources (i.e. no reputation damage) and the error involved matters of abstract policy and political grandstanding.

If the error did cause damage, such as defaming a public official, or causing an angry protest that turned into a riot, then I'm certain the NYT would issue a correction, just as it did recently with its misleading report re: Cenk Uygur and David Duke (albeit after 3 days of complaints from Uygur and his supporters) [6]. But regardless of whether there are aggrieved parties, news organizations should be making corrections solely because they value truth and accountability. That the NYT has so completely and brazenly refused to acknowledge its massive, noticeable fuckup (which, besides the error, indicates a real flaw in sourcing) means that their correction policy should be regarded as arbitrary and unserious.

tl;dr: if they didn't make a correction for an error this big and noticeable, imagine how reluctant they are to issue corrections for errors much less noticeable and/or controversial.

[0] http://newsdiffs.org/

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/opinion/sunday/article-ch...

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20191210221006/https://www.nytim...

[2] https://twitter.com/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnyt...

[3] https://web.archive.org/web/20191211010003/https://www.nytim...

[4] https://twitter.com/Yair_Rosenberg/status/120483406506251468...

[5] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/12/12/jersey-city...

[6] https://twitter.com/nytpolitics/status/1206722302416687110

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One avenue that I think hasn't been fully explored/exhausted yet is false advertising regulation. Calling your product "news" carries a an entirely reasonable expectation that the product is free of falsehoods. (I'm not getting into bias, just absence of lies) What would happen if we made that term (or synonyms like "journalism") protected advertising terms, so that you're required to either live up to it, or call yo…

Lies are still protected free speech in most circumstances. Additionally you have the problem of policing who decides what is illegal

As is the press. Outside of libel laws, the press is constitutionally exempt from any type of regulation. As impotent as the press is today, I wouldn't want any political party to be able to decide what it can and can't say.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#178
post #127

@dang - arguably misleading title, please consider renaming to “Bloomberg LP fined €5m for publishing fake press release”. Current title can be read that Michael Bloomberg was personally fined.

We changed the title as part of changing the URL to Reuters. Submitted title was "Bloomberg fined $5.6M for publishing fake press release".

Actually the originally submitted title was "Bloomberg was taught a $5.6M lesson on factchecking", but the submitter edited it a few minutes later, which was good because that one broke the site guidelines badly.

"Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Term limits. Or vote them out next time. Part of the reason the Constitution writers made 2 and 6 year terms, to try to force the House to be responsive to public opinion and the Senate resistant to GIGO cycling of proposed bills. Of course that's all moot with the current 'ideology above sanity', but that's the game today. Term limits.

Term limits is one of those ideas that sound good, but is actually bad. Think about it: why would you want to have lawmakers automatically removed from office after they have gained significant experience in writing and lobbying for legislation and serving in various committees? Terminating someone when they are at the height of their productivity doesn't make any sense, either for business or for government. Further…

> Terminating someone when they are at the height of their productivity

Unfortunately for that rosy abstract view, 'gained significant experience' usually means 'entrenched in the party leadership and completely sold to special interests'. When votes wield less influence over a legislator than those who have bought them, they need to go and make room for someone less likely to get bought.

Let the people make examples of the most heavily bought, and there's a snowball's chance we could get back to having representatives again, instead of corporate interest peddlers.

And shorter terms, with less chance to get entrenched in influence peddling, makes that revolving door less enticing for all sides.

Re: France's AMF watchdog fines Bloomberg €5M over Vinci hoax

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It just kinda...disappeared. This might be the answer to you second question. No one seems to have taken the Bloomberg story to be true. Just went "that's dumb" and dropped it. In fact the only times I've ever seen it resurface is in a context to point out something negative about Bloomberg (like now), not the companies named in the article. Sort of like the Elon Musk defamation case that just ended. Plaintiff didn'…

Super Micro's stock dropped about 30% and took months to recover.

And was there any legal action from Super Micro or other affected parties, like in this case?
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