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Renaissance Technologies

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171–180 of 261 posts

Re: Renaissance Technologies

#171
So, assuming nothing against the law, how would they do it legitly? I am guessing:

- Treat the markets as a complex dynamical system and use the tools from statistical physics such as the Gibbs Ensemble, to derive internal states from input and output.

- Treat the markets as an encryption algorithm and use the tools from cryptanalysis, such as differential cryptanalysis: Even when unable to decipher the full algorithm (total break), one may still derive details and a subset of system functionality.

- They were probably the first to heavily use Hidden Markov Models (see Baum–Welch algorithm and the IBM speech recognition recruitment) and keep on the frontline with new machine learning algorithms (their deep learning revolution would have started 10-15 years before industry).

- They'd have an extremely solid backtesting pipeline, where any new feature can be stress-tested for signal. Features could be very arcane (% of mentions of the currency on neighboring state television) and are constantly (re-)added and removed: concept drift and market competition would gradually weaken signals, but fresh signals are added to keep the performance.

- All features are fed into a single final model (which may be an ensemble of many different forecasting techniques as to lower the variance). This model is very dynamic year-by-year (with just a few long-term signal features).

- Finally, I suspect there are strategies that only become available when you have 1 billion under control. In a physics sense: That is a lot of energy / control theory experimentation budget. Normally, hedge funds would like to avoid feedback loops and their trades moving the markets, but I suspect there is a lot of money to be made when you can calculate in which direction the market would move when the system is deprived of - or infused with a jolt of energy. More hands-off: Buy for 1 billion in stock at market open, sell at market close. Buy signal will take a few hours to converge and result in a higher price, so you make a profit when you sell your portfolio to the very buyer's market you created, causing a drop in price to complete the loop.

- The extreme returns for 2007/2008 could be due to the increase in volatility of the crisis (you can make more money when there is a lot of action, and competitors suffer from human herd bias / hysteria), but also, in part, due to them being the first to effectively exploit signals in growing social media platforms and search engines. A few years later it was public knowledge that gauging frequency and sentiment on Twitter was once a valuable signal.

- The NSA/CIA type recruits would not work on industrial spying, but on cryptanalysis, (graph) data mining, OSINT, HUMINT, IMINT, and for the security of the firm (which probably runs a tighter security than the intelligence agencies of smaller countries).

Re: Renaissance Technologies

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is not likely, but you should consider setting up an anonymous email in your HN profile to at least receive questions about the company as an employee. Not to answer anything proprietary or to give anything away under NDA, but so that people can speak candidly with someone not in HR without having to rely on HN comments. Denise is great, but I wouldn't say she's the best source to answer harmless but very…

It's a small world. Denise used to sit outside my office until I moved moved to a new location. ;-) She has forwarded requests that people may occasionally send directly to me in the past and I generally try to respond. I prefer all communication be done through proper channels to avoid any "issues" that might arise. I have a son who is a CS major in college now. I completely understand how challenging (and borked) t…

Can't say I had the most favorable phone interview with you guys, but I did appreciate the incredibly responsive process even through the "proper channels".

Re: Renaissance Technologies

#173
post #14

Do they still outperform? I can imagine 10 years ago they were ahead of everyone but now quant investing is everywhere I would be surprised if they have a big edge.

I would read the recent book. Competition really started in the mid-1990s (and quant funds existed way before that point), and Renaissance actually picked up steam far later than everyone else (and had trouble raising capital because everyone thought the space was already tapped out). Btw, the point to investing isn't an absolute level of knowledge but relative knowledge. If you keep moving ahead because you are smar…

I would argue its because academic success is more related to having a great memory than having novel intelligence

Re: Renaissance Technologies

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean what is the end effect of this though? Basically some smart people get very rich. Due to zero-sum game, other people lose. No benefit is derived in the real economy. The only possible benefit is increased liquidity... which really isn't that beneficial past a point right? I don't see the benefit. If you have a different angle I'd be glad to hear it.

I generally agree that there are some really bad effects of funds like this. But wealth is not zero-sum.

Wealth is not zero sum in the long term. But it is in the short term. When a fund makes a billion profit in one day, do you think that was just the natural creation of wealth? No, other market participants collectively lost that much.

Re: Renaissance Technologies

#175
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TGS is comparable to Medallion. The two have competed for talent in the past, and TGS actually spreads higher AUM over fewer people. TGS just doesn't have satellite funds, so they're quieter.

hmm, I did not know that. Do you have some external links or returns to back this claim?

TGS is famously secretive. They went prop in the early 90s; no external investors. You won't find their returns anywhere.

The only public data available (that I know of) is related to their charitable giving.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-05-08/three-mys...

Re: Renaissance Technologies

#176
post #18

A great book about RenTec and Jim Simons came out recently: The Man Who Solved the Market: How Jim Simons Launched the Quant Revolution. Everyone in the industry worships Simons and RenTec as practically god-like. What they've managed to do shouldn't really be possible and is out of this world. According to Wikipedia over a 20 year period between 1994 and 2014, RenTec realized an 71.9% annualized return in their inte…

> What they've managed to do shouldn't really be possible and is out of this world.

We don’t live in a world of wizards. When impossible feats are delivered on schedule for years without others figuring out is a hint that something is up.

Someday, we’ll learn about whatever combination of corruption, grift or other bullshit that was lurking behind the curtain.

Re: Renaissance Technologies

#178
post #74

While I understand there are moral and ethical complications with the vast sums of wealth and influence attached to RenTec, the tone in these comments is disappointing... There is no fraud at RenTec, and there is nothing magical about what they do. It's simply an amazing technical and scientific organization, operating with almost unthinkable efficiency and scale. I haven't read the book, but I'm pretty sure this isn…

This is really interesting, and what I'm about to say makes me feel more bleeding-heart than I feel I am most days, but there's something deeply melancholy about the fact that this collection of the best intelligence our species has to offer, working together to achieve something utterly unheard of - so unheard of that many other smart people think there's something criminal going on - is exerting its collective effo…

The problem is that our society is terrible at rewarding positive externalities. Even worse than we are at punishing negative externalities.

I do object to your phrasing. Quantitative finance isn't hacking a casino. It does generate actual value. The problem is that finance is one of the few fields where you can expect to be rewarded in proportion to the value you generate because the amount of value you generate is easy to measure. Cue all the smart, realistic people rushing into finance instead of having a larger impact for peanuts doing fundamental science or something.

Re: Renaissance Technologies

#179
post #167

It blows my mind how much RenTech does with some ~300 employees. I recently had a phone screen with them (no offer otherwise I wouldn’t be writing this) and all of my communication was with this MIT math PhD. No HR, just the PhD. Compare them with a Big N that has 10,000s of SWE’s. It’s a safe assumption that each engineer is individually less talented but even so, how do they iterate/experiment with such few employe…

> how do they iterate/experiment with such few employees? Faster!

Upon hearing this, the student achieved enlightenment.

Re: Renaissance Technologies

#180
post #18

A great book about RenTec and Jim Simons came out recently: The Man Who Solved the Market: How Jim Simons Launched the Quant Revolution. Everyone in the industry worships Simons and RenTec as practically god-like. What they've managed to do shouldn't really be possible and is out of this world. According to Wikipedia over a 20 year period between 1994 and 2014, RenTec realized an 71.9% annualized return in their inte…

> What they've managed to do shouldn't really be possible and is out of this world. We don’t live in a world of wizards. When impossible feats are delivered on schedule for years without others figuring out is a hint that something is up. Someday, we’ll learn about whatever combination of corruption, grift or other bullshit that was lurking behind the curtain.

Have you read the book?
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