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Estonia is running its country like a tech company

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Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#171

Post by buboard »

fzeroracer wrote: post #158
buboard wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries are ran far worse than a company. If citizens had the option to freely jump between countries, most of them would go bankrupt, that's why they rely on coercion. Very few countries are ran efficiently and they re typically very small like Singapore.

I feel like the only people that can honestly say this are those that are not familiar with just how poorly ran a lot of companies tend to be. The major difference being that an inept government is generally much more visible than an inept company. But as someone that's worked both commercial and government, I've seen enough to make a definitive statement that a lot of companies are incredibly poorly ran. You just do…

the major difference is that countries cannot die, no matter how poorly ran

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#172

Post by odiroot »

Mirioron wrote: post #151
odiroot wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you recommend Estonia for setting up a freelancing business -- as in establishing a legal entity for self-employment?

It depends on what your alternatives are. My guess is that it's not worth it because you still have to pay the taxes an employer would and what an employee would - social security and income taxes. You can take a look at the calculator: https://www.calkoo.com/en/salary-calculator The taxation system itself is very simple, if VAT isn't involved. You can just enter your annual income and the calculator will tell you al…

Thank you.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#173

Post by api_or_ipa »

I've heard so much about Estonia's digital economy, but I struggle to see the effect it has on it's own economy. Now, my data might be bad, but a cursory look at Estonia's GDP growth rate shows perfectly normal growth alongside Lithuania and Latvia [0]. Using Latvia and Lithuania to control for a digital economy, Estonia should see greater growth, but it doesn't. If going head-first into a digital economy had a significant pay-off, it should show up in the data. Until it does, I'm still sceptical.

0: https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&...

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#174

Post by kapuasuite »

juskrey wrote: post #103

I had a pretty intense honeymoon with Estonia, even had a relatively popular blog on e-residency, have visited Estonia twice (great experience btw).. And, after four years, I have reopened my company in UK and trying to liquidate my Estonian one (today I have received a denial letter which says that only Estonian citizen can close my company).. In short: Vague frequently changing rules, introduction of strange comple…

The point about the accountants is interesting - might be a good opportunity to reach out to the professional association for Estonian accountants (if such a thing exists) to give some feedback.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#175

Post by gumby »

Scoundreller wrote: post #135
hos234 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It barely has a million people. You have to compare it with other countries of similar size and population. Comparing it to Spain, Germany, US, UAE, Sri Lanka is like comparing mice to dogs, cows, elephants and blue whales. That said, ofcourse there are things that can be learnt and applied to similar sized towns, cities, states etc that want these features.

> You have to compare it with other countries of similar size and population. Countries aren't their own silo anymore. A small country that's in Eurozone, EU and NATO has a lot of "big country" benefits than a small country not in those groups.

That's what they are tryig to arbitrage (and why not?): big country benefits with small country benefits.

This is what Delaware managed to do successfully in the US.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#176

Post by gumby »

Iv wrote: post #44
znq wrote: post #4

I've run and invested in businesses in multiple countries (Spain, Germany, US, UAE, Sri Lanka). One of them (Mobile Jazz - a fully remote company) we've moved to Estonia in 2016. One of the best business decisions we've made admin-wise. While there are for sure better alternatives when it comes to "saving on taxes" (I'd say Estonia is in the European average with 20% corporate tax and an interesting taxation model on…

I am French living abroad. I had a one person (freelancing) company when I moved to Japan. It was hell interacting remotely with the administration. I am kind of left wing so I believed in not doing tax optimization and paying the taxes I owe at home, I was told this was suspicious. If I ever do business again within the EU area, I will give Estonia a try. The prospect of an administration set up for working remotely…

I share your pain. I was just last night on the phone to France because of a wrangle over a French bank account held by an Australian and German (me and my wife) both currently living in the USA.

I also agree with you on the tax front; at least with regards to the French authorities. Luckily Australia and the US are much simpler in this regard.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#177

Post by Scoundreller »

gumby wrote: post #175
Scoundreller wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have to compare it with other countries of similar size and population. Countries aren't their own silo anymore. A small country that's in Eurozone, EU and NATO has a lot of "big country" benefits than a small country not in those groups.

That's what they are tryig to arbitrage (and why not?): big country benefits with small country benefits. This is what Delaware managed to do successfully in the US.

As for NATO, it’s better for the big countries if they can hold Russia back in the Baltics and let them be the collateral damage. Sounds win-win to me.

And they get access to lots of cheaper labour directly (migration) and indirectly (outsourcing to people that will still buy your stuff).

As I’ve posted, the big banks in the Baltics are primarily not Baltic.

That access has its benefits, but also its price.

I guess I’m a believer that free trade works out well, well enough to create a system to support those left behind. Often the latter is left out however.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#178

Post by wenc »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #115
rorykoehler wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheques haven't even existed for 15+ years here in Ireland. America is quite slow on the uptake of tech considering they are arguably the most disruptive innovators in the world as a country.

I haven’t used checks routinely for the last 20 years in the states. I’m always really annoyed when some random niche activity requires it and can’t accept an online transfer. Then I have to go to the bank and get a temporary one.

Checks still have lower transaction fees for large amounts than most electronic forms do payment (cost: a postage stamp).

I was looking for electronic ways to send a substantial wad of money domestically once and almost all electronic transfer providers wanted a percentage.

Would be interested to know if there are any online services that can match the transaction fee of a check.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#179

Post by TulliusCicero »

distances wrote: post #170
TulliusCicero wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found Germany is even more backwards for consumer-facing tech. I frequently have to pay with cash at businesses here, and of course make sure to always have a coin on you for the shopping cart at the grocery store! Additionally, websites for German institutions are markedly behind what I was used to in the states (e.g. elementary schools), they all still rely heavily on phone calls and letters, and I still had p…

Note that a big reason for cash use in Germany is privacy (no trace of your purchases) and thriftiness (stores avoiding card payment fees). But yes, Germany is quite slow to adopt new technology.

> Note that a big reason for cash use in Germany is privacy (no trace of your purchases)

Well, no. That explains why consumers might pay with cash, but not why businesses would only take cash.

> thriftiness (stores avoiding card payment fees).

This one, yeah makes sense. Although it has less explanatory power for EC cards than credit cards imo. Aren't EC card payment fees quite low?

Plus IIRC studies show people being more willing to spend more with 'plastic' than cash, so it may actually be a false savings for the business.

And it's not like Germany is collectively taking some principled position against digital payments, they're just slower on the adoption curve; it IS still happening. To me this points more to the general conservatism on digital things that you can see elsewhere as well (e.g. uptake of digital books, downloaded vs physical video games, downloaded/streamed music, etc.) rather than something specific to payments themselves.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#180

Post by gumby »

Scoundreller wrote: post #177
gumby wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what they are tryig to arbitrage (and why not?): big country benefits with small country benefits. This is what Delaware managed to do successfully in the US.

As for NATO, it’s better for the big countries if they can hold Russia back in the Baltics and let them be the collateral damage. Sounds win-win to me. And they get access to lots of cheaper labour directly (migration) and indirectly (outsourcing to people that will still buy your stuff). As I’ve posted, the big banks in the Baltics are primarily not Baltic. That access has its benefits, but also its price. I guess I…

> As for NATO, it’s better for the big countries if they can hold Russia back in the Baltics and let them be the collateral damage. Sounds win-win to me.

Indeed.

Before the eastern expansion I had noticed years ago how portions of Niedersachsen bordering East Germany had been designed as a huge tank trap (dams could be blown up to flood the plains), and the bridges and some other civilian infrastructure was dual use as well (e.g. signed/scaled for tank passage). Likewise I discovered in late 1989 that a lot of the non-local roads between villages in the DDR weren't really passable by passenger cars but would still have bridges able to support heavy armour.

It seemed like a deliberate policy of both NATO and the Warsaw Pact that if there was to be yet another large war in Europe it should start in Germany for a change.

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