The China Cultural Clash • Hacker News Board

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#171

Post by acqq » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

From the about of the site:

> Stratechery is written by me, Ben Thompson. I am based in Taipei, Taiwan, and am fully supported by my work at Stratechery.

I think it's important to know the perspective of the author, being situated in Taiwan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan,_China

"the People's Republic of China (PRC) ― which is widely recognized by the international community as the legitimate representative of "China" ― does not currently exercise jurisdiction over areas controlled by the Republic of China (ROC)."

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#172

Post by mlyle » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

knzhou wrote: post #152

ookblah wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese consulate in Houston put out a statement condemning the tweet. You have a track record of China using the heavy hand to dictate the messaging of corporations and individual citizens. No coordinated message in China goes through without the explicit or implicit consent of the government, even if it starts "from the people". It's not hard to make the connection here.

> The Chinese consulate in Houston put out a statement condemning the tweet. Okay, perhaps. But that could also be them jumping on a popular bandwagon. I'm just raising this doubt because I've seen, many times on sites like this, enormous panics over supposed Chinese government actions, which actually boil down to totally innocuous actions from individuals. The most common cognitive bias when the West discusses the E…

Here, the action was fast in a way that speaks of external coordination.

If someone in the US makes politically questionable speech, the fallout is stretched over days, and generally products aren't pulled immediately from retailers, etc. Here, we had many commercial actors respond at once (Alibaba, Tencent, Li Ning, China Basketball Association, etc.).

It reeks of state coordination and pressure, especially when Chinese government entities are making related contemporaneous statements. Even if it wasn't, it's overly reactionary; elsewhere, one tends not to immediately kill commercial relationships over a controversial statement by one executive, but instead see how the organization as a whole will react to concerns first.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#173

Post by richardzyx » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 6:43 PM UTC

> Kunlun Tech had acquired Grindr without undergoing CFIUS review. TikTok similarly acquired Musical.ly without oversight and relaunched it as TikTok for the Western market; it is worth at least considering the possibility of a review given TikTok’s apparent willingness to censor content for Western audiences according to Chinese government wishes.

Musical.ly was a Shanghai-based company targeting the western market, once considered as a case study for similar types of companies.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#174

Post by ceejayoz » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

tanilama wrote: post #164

chromaton wrote: post #119

How can we get Tim Cook to make a statement regarding democracy in Hong Kong? Either he refuses, which would be supporting the brutal crackdowns, or he forces China to act as they did like in the NBA case.

Cook is a friend of Trump, just saying.

Don't confuse "Cook is a friend of Trump" and "Cook is trying to stay out of Trump's crosshairs".

He's donated to both sides of the aisle, including a fundraiser for Hillary Clinton last election: https://fortune.com/2016/08/24/apple-tim-cook-fundraiser-cli...

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#175

Post by nostrademons » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

zarro wrote: post #161

nostrademons wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted you for a thought-provoking perspective, but I think you're wrong historically. Most totalitarian governments fail on the battlefield, or they fail when the charismatic leader dies and his heirs are not so charismatic. Think of Genghis Khan, Napoleon, the empires that fell during WW1, the Axis powers in WW2, Libya post-Gaddafi, or Saddam Hussein. Totalitarianism seems to be an effective way to rapidly moder…

The fact that you have 60k karma and left such a naive and foolish comment either means this was a serious lapse in judgement on your part or the hackernews rating system is completely worthless.

If you come here for intellectual discussion, expect to have your ideas challenged.

FWIW, I thought the same as you when I got out of college, and it's only after reading a bunch more history and learning to separate reality as it is from reality as I would like it to be that I ended up revising that opinion.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#176

Post by munchbunny » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

justinzollars wrote: post #42

Having recently traveled to China, returning home made me very thankful to live in a Western Democracy. Many of my day to day problems are overstated, and I think our appreciation for liberty is under appreciated.

I think our appreciation for liberty is under appreciated.

Having grown up as a Chinese immigrant, I think this is true in ways that I wish the more fervent Americans could appreciate.

By that I mean I wish Americans respected the more general principle of enfranchisement more, but these days in practice that's just a straight up criticism of the GOP and anyone who votes for them, due to their gerrymandering and voter suppression practices.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#177

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 6:46 PM UTC

zarro wrote: post #41

I see lots of Anti-China sentiment. I would be very careful here into not falling into their deliberate trap of making "The West" China's "Enemy". China in its current totalitarian form needs an "Enemy" to survive, without it, it has to deal with difficult internal questions which will force it to adapt and change - and this what scares them. Totalitarian governments rely on distraction and misdirection of the popula…

[deleted]

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#178

Post by chromaton » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 6:46 PM UTC

tanilama wrote: post #164

chromaton wrote: post #119

How can we get Tim Cook to make a statement regarding democracy in Hong Kong? Either he refuses, which would be supporting the brutal crackdowns, or he forces China to act as they did like in the NBA case.

Cook is a friend of Trump, just saying.

Could be a good angle to work as Trump has done some stuff lately that's also likely to anger the CCP.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#179

Post by chromaton » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #150

chromaton wrote: post #119

How can we get Tim Cook to make a statement regarding democracy in Hong Kong? Either he refuses, which would be supporting the brutal crackdowns, or he forces China to act as they did like in the NBA case.

Tim only stands up to leaders and governments who cannot cause him physical of financial harm. Pretty much par for the course for many American CEOs but he stands out because how much he touts Apple's stance for rights.

Even if it means bad press for saying nothing?

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#180

Post by Barrin92 » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

check-in wrote: post #48

> China took the first shots, and they took them a long time ago. For over a decade U.S. services companies have been unilaterally shut out of the China market, even as Chinese alternatives had full reign, running on servers built with U.S. components But, the U.S. companies like this equation - don't they? It helps them generate more profit to their shareholders and give them access to that scale of manufacturing. T…

Yes, and importantly the new players rules are only the old players rules of the past. The 'American System' of economic development is essentially what's playing out on the Chinese side now.

The US of course doesn't need to like it, but it seems a tad silly to expect that a country that is very much still developing to act like a free-trading developed nation.