Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet • Hacker News Board

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#171

Post by ineedasername » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:42 AM UTC

Merrill wrote: post #108

There will continue to be unrest in Iraq until an all-Shiite government is in control. At the time of Gulf War II under W, the population was about 20% Sunni, 20% Kurdish, and 60% Shiite. So if you disarm the minority ruling Sunni establishment and instead pledge to install a democracy, a Shiite government is the logical conclusion. Since realizing their mistake, the US has attempted to patch together some multi-reli…

You assume 40% of the population won't create a lot of unrest when the 60% come into power and cut them out of having a say in how their lives are run. Which, I guess might happen, but it seems unlikely, especially given the acrimonious history that just keeps getting deeper and deeper.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#172

Post by matt_j » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:43 AM UTC

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #149

corford wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, we're not all bastards

Wanting to protect your own civilization and way of life doesn't make one a bastard. It's this kind of divisive rhetoric that has spurned the division we see today and the rise of hard-right nationalism. Please learn to be somewhat more rational and civil in your discourse.

The US conflict with Iraq was unjustified and based on blatant lies. Whatever their reasons for invading, they were certainly to further their own interests, the economic boost of a war machine and rebuilding infrastructure, geo-politics, etc. The interests of the "poor Iraqi people" come about dead last on the list of reasons the wars occurred.

So "protecting your civilisation and way of life" from the fallout of an unjustified war that one's country (coalition of the willing?) participated in, does make one a bit of a bastard, and that's putting it lightly.

Last time I checked we're all humans and until we all live in relative comfort there's a bunch of fatties on one end consuming more than their fair share.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#173

Post by ineedasername » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:44 AM UTC

trust07007707 wrote: post #113

LORA based mesh could help here https://nootropicdesign.com/projectlab/2018/10/20/lora-mesh-...

Is it any more difficult to jam than other network technologies?

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#174

Post by ineedasername » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:45 AM UTC

reubens wrote: post #89

whatevertrevor wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the logic in shutting down the internet? Countries do that these days (see Kashmir) to keep the protests under control by blocking communication and collaboration among the protesters. It increases the barrier to discovery and participation in a protest basically.

Thanks. It seemed to me counterintuitive to respond to protests about inadequate services by cutting off another service (fanning the flames)

Yes, there's another comment here somewhere that points to a study where showing violence tends to increase post-shutdown compared to leaving communications open. I suppose leaving things open lets people organize more, but they tend to be more peaceful in those gatherings. Just supposition though.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#175

Post by icebraining » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:46 AM UTC

treebeard901 wrote: post #148

parsimo2010 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. USA ousts Saddam Hussein, and is obligated to help Iraq transition to a democratic government (because they invasion was done under the pretext of liberating a country from a mad dictator with weapons of mass destruction, instead of the commonly cited argument of securing resources for the American empire). 2. USA backs a candidate and initially gets a government elected that is favorable to the USA. However, thes…

Standing between Saudi Arabia and Iran was Saddam Hussein and his military. By removing him it created a power vacuum that has been filled by various groups over time. The different election results in Iraq over the years now point to a chess game between Iran and Saudi Arabia for regional control. Now instead of Iraq standing between the other two, it's serving as a way to create conflict where the two may eventuall…

Which is exactly what was predicted:

"That's a very volatile part of the world. And if you take down the central government in Iraq, you could easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off. Part of it the Syrians would like to have, the west. Part of eastern Iraq the Iranians would like to claim. Fought over for eight years. In the north, you've got the Kurds. And if the Kurds spin loose and join with Kurds in Turkey, then you threaten the territorial integrity of Turkey. It's a quagmire if you go that far and try to take over Iraq." -- Dick Cheney

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#176

Post by lawnchair_larry » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:46 AM UTC

perl4ever wrote: post #159

parsimo2010 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a win for the USA because one of their enemies gained influence in the region. It's really as simple as that, but: The invasion also led to the rise of ISIS, which is widely seen as a embarrassment to the USA because they were supposed to be rebuilding a country and ended up allowing a large and deadly terrorist group to form under their noses. And just to add on, there are literal losses as well. When the I…

"Iraq has "lost" at least a billion dollars of military equipment in recent years" That's... one tenth of one percent of the cost (to the US) of the war.

That’s the wrong measure by a long shot.

If I lose a $2000 rifle, and that rifle is then used to massacre a school, was the loss a mere $2000?

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#177

Post by zepearl » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:46 AM UTC

harshreality wrote: post #67

From a pragmatic perspective, what is the West and the US in particular supposed to do about this? We shouldn't have gone into Iraq in 2003 in the first place, but we did, so what now? Our government is going to keep its boot on the neck of Iraq and stay involved over there as long as Iraq still has oil, right? If the problem now is more that we have too little influence, so what? Are we supposed to try regime change…

If somebody leaves a void (US?) then the next strongest force (Iran?) will try to fill it.

In the case of Iraq (maybe similar for Syria?) I guess that there aren't probably big motivations/interests nor strong cultural similarities for the West to create something similar to a "Marshall Plan" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan ) to kickstart again the nation and then make it work long-term from both an economic and indirectly social perspective. Therefore, I think that Iraq will just drift more and more towards what will look like the next-best offer(s) (Iran?).

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#178

Post by lawnchair_larry » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:52 AM UTC

corford wrote: post #132

cheese4242 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe doesn't have to do anything if it doesn't want to. They can just not let in refugees (whether legitimate refugees or pretenders).

Fortunately, we're not all bastards

You will be. You don’t think you have it in you, but just wait. You’ll find that you have more in common with the bastards than you ever thought you could.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#179

Post by bsder » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:52 AM UTC

narrator wrote: post #166

mful wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The initial government was pro-American, but the consequence of pushing a country to have democratic elections is that they sometimes elect people that you don't like. I don't the right prior here is "elections = real democracy", for cases like Iraq. The US has long history of installing "democratic" governments that are not actually democratic, but rather military states who violently suppress the people, but supp…

After World War I the British redrew the map of the middle east pretty arbitrarily after defeating the Ottoman Turks founding modern Iraq. It wasn't really guaranteed in the first place to include people who like each other.

It was far from arbitrary.

The British drew the map specifically so that they could use the local tensions to divide and conquer.

We're still suffering because of that.

Re: Iraq blocks Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, and Instagram, shuts down internet

#180

Post by trust07007707 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 12:53 AM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #173

trust07007707 wrote: post #113

LORA based mesh could help here https://nootropicdesign.com/projectlab/2018/10/20/lora-mesh-...

Is it any more difficult to jam than other network technologies?

No, and they have a large attack surface thru various techniques, so not a good choice for anything but keeping touch with friends and relatives (assuming no mass usage occurs)