No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy • Hacker News Board

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#171

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 8:39 AM UTC

wayoutthere wrote: post #72

bonerman69 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increasing estrogen blood levels will literally cause any male-sex person to become more empathetic via oxytocin...

Probably better to say "assigned male at birth" -- I'm not genetically male, but everyone assumed I was until I got tested after transitioning. The best medically relevant definitions are "person on testosterone", "person on estrogen" etc. There is a lot of suspicion that things like estrogen/androgen receptor binding affinity play a big role in gender identity and brain development, and we haven't even scratched the…

[deleted]

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#172

Post by collyw » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 8:51 AM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #127

Another victim in the "replication crisis" bloodbath for psychology. Personally, I'm probably going to wait 5 years before I believe any psychology science claim. Especially if it confirms something I already believe in :)

What is the rate of failure for "harder" sciences, does anyone know?

In saying that I think there will be a self correcting mechanism in more physically based science. If something can be replicated it can be built upon and new discoveries made. If something can't be replicated it will end up being forgotten about.

Also I do think that science needs a way of reporting failed studies and failed replication. At the moment all the glory and funding go to studies that produce positive results. Producing a failed result is still valid science and should be doccumented.

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#173

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 9:07 AM UTC

anon1m0us wrote: post #84

It's amazing that something so sexist could have been suggested without backlash. Imagine if studies indicated that low testosterone limited or in some way hindered another desirable human capability. People have been fired for it and reputations ruined. Suggesting men are emotionally stunted. Oh that's fine.

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Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#174

Post by anon1m0us » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 9:08 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #142

anon1m0us wrote: post #84

It's amazing that something so sexist could have been suggested without backlash. Imagine if studies indicated that low testosterone limited or in some way hindered another desirable human capability. People have been fired for it and reputations ruined. Suggesting men are emotionally stunted. Oh that's fine.

Please don't take HN threads into flamewar. I understand the feeling you're expressing completely. But if you just import this resentment into the thread in an unprocessed way, it acidifies discussion and makes it harder for people to be thoughtful and share information across divides. Not just the gender-ideological divide, but any divide. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21139988…

Understood. Thank you.

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#175

Post by username90 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 9:20 AM UTC

We already had a large study five years ago (n = 453) showing that testosterone didn't have a significant effect on cognitive empathy (RMET). However it found significant effects of testosterone on trait empathy, both positive and negative depending on cortisol levels.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs40750-014-0017-...

Not sure why it wasn't cited in this paper.

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#176

Post by username90 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 9:27 AM UTC

perardi wrote: post #97

Does anyone have access to the paper, and not just the abstract? I'm curious to see what the measured testosterone levels in the subjects' blood ended up being. Did they push their testosterone levels to the high end of "natural", something like 700 ng/dL, or did they push them into supra-physiological bodybuilder levels? (I'd love to see a study about the cognitive effects of harder anabolic steroids, but somehow I…

You can read the preprint here: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/516344v3.full

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#177

Post by nailer » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 9:32 AM UTC

geofft wrote: post #74

nailer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'non-trans' works fine and is clearer to most people. 'cisgendered' is also correct, but it has political connotations, eg 'cishet scum'. WikiPedia has some good references: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

I think the insulting part of "cishet scum" is "scum." I definitely see "cis" and occasionally "cishet" as entirely denotative self-identifications in spaces where it's relevant and trans and non-heterosexual folks are at least more visibly represented than in the world at large, and it's neither positive nor negative, it's just what one is. The phrase "male chauvinist" doesn't mean there's an intrinsic negative conn…

Most people consider 'nasty woman' and 'male chauvinist' clearly based on sex - otherwise you'd just call them nasty or sexist.

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#178

Post by username90 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 9:40 AM UTC

tomlock wrote: post #132

microcolonel wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of the impression that this is a misconception. 50 years ago, "programmer" was a different job. Imagine if executives were just called secretaries now and that's a decent analogy for what I think happened to programmers and architects.

I'm of the impression that back in 1959 when COBOL was released, with a team of 7 designers with 3 women on it, based off the groundwork laid by Grace Hopper, that the technical skill required to be a programmer was actually much higher, and that the women involved in coding were making very technical decisions about that field.

Back then programming was basically applied mathematics, a field with many women. Today programming is gluing together components in order to build systems which is much more similar to engineering, a field with few women.

There are still many women among those who program mathematics (statisticians etc), just that they are usually not called programmers. Also there is much less demand for people who can program math than people who can glue together libraries and create crud apps, so even if all math programmers are included in the statistics they would get dwarfed by the app programmers.

Source of the combination mathematics and statistics being a gender balanced field, above 40% women: https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/2017/nsf17310/digest/fod-wome...

Engineering always being male dominated, around 15% women: https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/2017/nsf17310/digest/fod-wome...

Computer science gender balance getting lowered to engineering levels: https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/2017/nsf17310/digest/fod-wome...

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#179

Post by Golfkid2Gadfly » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 10:18 AM UTC

Aka "science has found no official support for the 'ALL MEN ARE PIGS!' tagline dating back to circa 1996."

I "love" (/s) that science now has to justify that we're not a subhuman sub-species.

I also "love" (slash fucking S obviously) that this article is guaranteed "controversial".

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#180

Post by Chris2048 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 10:20 AM UTC

tomlock wrote: post #132

microcolonel wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of the impression that this is a misconception. 50 years ago, "programmer" was a different job. Imagine if executives were just called secretaries now and that's a decent analogy for what I think happened to programmers and architects.

I'm of the impression that back in 1959 when COBOL was released, with a team of 7 designers with 3 women on it, based off the groundwork laid by Grace Hopper, that the technical skill required to be a programmer was actually much higher, and that the women involved in coding were making very technical decisions about that field.

I think the role was called "computer"?