171–180 of 308 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's terrible, in Quebec median salary is 60K CAD, topping out at 80K at most schools ( https://neuvoo.ca/salaire/?job=Enseignant%20Primaire ), which is plenty to afford a house (of course not if monoparental). I don't even think that a lot considering the responsibilities they have.
60K CAD is 45K USD, so it's pretty damn close to the OP's cited figure.
Why not just go directly to the source? https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#25-0000 Secondary School Teachers: annual mean wage: $64,230 If we zoom in on a particular type of teacher, you get ranges: Middle school teachers https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes252022.htm bottom 10% earn 39k or less. bottom 25% earn 46k 50% earn 58k 75% earn 74k 90% earn 93k Based on these metrics, it seems like a fine occupation…
I think it's more useful to look at new teacher salaries by state to get around tenure and averaging effects [1]. Fine vs. not fine varies a lot by location in this list. [1] http://www.nea.org/home/2017-2018-average-starting-teacher-s...
Scaled up from 10 months to 12 months of work, that's $37,702 and $66,251, respectively. The median household income is $53,386 in Montana and $82,372 in DC [1][2]. In both cases, even the un-scaled teacher's salary easily accounts for half of a typical household's income.
So even without tenure and averaging effects, this data backs up the article's claims.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>how society decides salaries. It seems pretty arbitrary from my perspective. Society doesn't "decide". It's a decided by the labor market. Nobody wants to pay programmers six figures. It's a myth that we think teachers are less important than programmers because they make less on average. There is just a larger supply of qualified teachers willing to work at lower prices. Wait until you find out how little art histo…
The word "qualified" is pulling a lot of weight in your argument. You can absolutely hire a programmer for $70k if you're willing to significantly relax your standards. On the other hand, you probably wouldn't be able to hire enough teachers at existing teacher salaries if you significantly raised your standards for what counts as "qualified". Tech companies have to use a relatively high bar, because bad developers w…
> (2) Annual wages have been calculated by multiplying the hourly mean wage by a "year-round, full-time" hours figure of 2,080 hours; for those occupations where there is not an hourly wage published, the annual wage has been directly calculated from the reported survey data. See, this is where things go wrong. So they've got mean wage figures which are constructed both on a fact (hourly wage) and an assumption (work…
Yes, the truth is if teachers worked their contractual hours schools would fall apart; and teachers will emphasize this point as protest! The general idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule Some examples, many of which only do "work-to-rule" on certain days, not even on all of the days. https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2018/02/09/west-chicago-teacher... https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2018/01/26/ora…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Check the caption for the "Median Annual Wages..." graph: " Teacher salaries are adjusted based on the assumption of a 10-month work year. " ...which is a good way to give them a virtual 17% pay raise. I wonder if the same applies to other professions like independent contractors or lawyers, who can only charge for part of their working time.
Yeah, and this makes so much sense considering how easy it is to find a high-paying 2-month temporary job. /s It's the old "You don't understand, teachers only work 10 months out of the year!" argument but dressed in some nice statistical clothing. It's asinine to make that argument because teachers can't actually get paid for the other two months. When I was temping in a warehouse unloading shipping containers one s…
The source needs some consideration. From Wikipedia on National Affairs: “National Affairs is a quarterly magazine in the United States about political affairs that was first published in September 2009. Its founding editor, Yuval Levin, and authors are typically considered to be conservative.[1][2] The magazine is published by National Affairs, Inc., which previously published the magazines The National Interest (19…
All this means is we get a conservative spin on the question rather than the usual liberal one. I am yet to find in life a simple, one sided answer to a complex question.
The problem with the teacher pay to me is obvious, market forces aren't allowed to play themselves out. Think about it: A teacher should be paid according to their skill, supply, and demand. A great teachers time is highly valuable and there should never be a cap on how much they make or considerations on such an important task to hinder on concepts such as tenure. If I hire a private teacher for my kids to teach the…
The problem with the teacher pay to me is obvious, market forces aren't allowed to play themselves out. Think about it: A teacher should be paid according to their skill, supply, and demand. A great teachers time is highly valuable and there should never be a cap on how much they make or considerations on such an important task to hinder on concepts such as tenure. If I hire a private teacher for my kids to teach the…
Ah yes, Steve Jobs, noted expert on such topics as education and medicine.
> (2) Annual wages have been calculated by multiplying the hourly mean wage by a "year-round, full-time" hours figure of 2,080 hours; for those occupations where there is not an hourly wage published, the annual wage has been directly calculated from the reported survey data. See, this is where things go wrong. So they've got mean wage figures which are constructed both on a fact (hourly wage) and an assumption (work…
I used to work in fast food. I would gladly get paid less per hour for my current software development job than I was back then (as long as it was above making rent). It was a much more draining job and it's effects consumed every waking minute during work days and spending off-days just recovering. That kind of job should have risk bonuses. Significant ones. Most people just can't do that and pursue anything else. G…
The 10-month working year is a core issue here. It's hard to convince voters and other government workers that teachers deserve a X% or XX% raise, when teachers receive 2.5-3x (summer break, plus other holidays) more paid leave than the average American. That paid leave is worth something: I think many people would choose a job with a $50k salary and 10 weeks of leave over a $60k salary and 3 weeks of leave. The obvi…
People are forgetting the economics of this and focusing in too much on the "teachers are heroes" thing. Teachers are paid what the market will bear. If the market pays too low, prospective teachers find other things to do. If the market pays too high, there will be more teachers coming in to the market. It's simple economics.
As for the "teachers are heroes" thing: yes, they are heroes and so are firefighters, police, military, nurses, doctors, PAs, social workers, counselors, pharmacists, EMTs and other first responders, rehab administrators, volunteers, those doing compulsory community service, those doing volunteer community service, medical technicians, lab technicians, anyone working for a nonprofit, public works employees, linemen(and women), sewage treatment operators, and anyone else working in a job that keeps the public safe and educated and healthy. All of the aforementioned should be paid well for their services as long as the market will bear it. Why society has chosen to put teachers on a pedestal over the others - I'm not sure. They're all important. Let the market do what it's supposed to do and things will settle themselves.