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French high court rules that Steam can’t ban users from reselling digital games

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Re: French high court rules that Steam can’t ban users from reselling digital games

#171

Surprised to see so much sentiment against this ruling. Digital software sale and distribution is just supposed to make software management easier and faster. A license is the same regardless of wether it's physical or digital. Why shouldn't this apply to resale of said merchandise? I rarely say this- but the French really make a ton of sense here.

A license is not the same for a physical copy vs a digital copy. A physical copy is an actual tangible thing, and courts have ruled that licenses travel with the ownership of the actual thing--i.e., copyright law does not trump property law. A digital copy is an ephemeral, transitory thing. The very nature of a digital object means that the object used/viewed/etc is not the same digital object that was stored (i.e.,…

>A license is not the same for a physical copy vs a digital copy.

>A physical copy is an actual tangible thing, and courts have ruled that licenses travel with the ownership of the actual thing--i.e., copyright law does not trump property law.

>A digital copy is an ephemeral, transitory thing. The very nature of a digital object means that the object used/viewed/etc is not the same digital object that was stored (i.e., the copy on your hard drive is not the copy in memory, though they may be identical).

...as defined by courts, but not this one. It is those things because we say it is. In another reality it's perfectly reasonable to assume courts ruled that there is no difference. It's a situation which benefits the producer, not the consumer.

I agree that it's tricky because you also can't allow for a buyer to produce copies and undercut you but, at the same time, I am getting a low less with my money.

>or for PC game prices to go up dramatically in the EU if it is not.

There has been a second hand market for games since they have existed (which was also fought against btw, along with rentals.)

Re: French high court rules that Steam can’t ban users from reselling digital games

#172
post #42
post #9

Personally, I like the fact that Steam games can’t be resold. Why? Because that keeps the prices down since the resale value of a game does not need to be included in the price. If games could be resold then I’d have to go through the trouble of reselling them in order to recoup the difference.

I don't get the logic. How not reselling keeps the price down? Isn't it the other way around? There are games that are 2 or 4 years old and still have the same price as the release day. If reselling was an option it will force them to lower the price and even offer more for those buying "new".

Almost everyone I know only buys games during the big seasonal Steam sales, perhaps with the exception of the occasional “must have.” By not allowing resales, game developers are forced to offer big discounts during these sales in order to capture the “clearance bin” prices that would otherwise go to the secondary market. If reselling were possible, game publishers would never offer those discounts since resellers would always undercut them.

I have personally purchased some Steam bundles that included games I’m actually interested in playing for less than a dollar.

Re: French high court rules that Steam can’t ban users from reselling digital games

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you plan on doing this without any of: - $1 game with $49 infrastructure fixed price that you have to pay on every resale - monthly subscription to play game (which consumers do not like) - "free to play" nonsense

> - $1 game with $49 infrastructure fixed price that you have to pay on every resale Why would data storage & data bandwidth be upfront fixed price? Bill on usage.

Well the real cost of bandwidth is cents...

Re: French high court rules that Steam can’t ban users from reselling digital games

#174

Surprised to see so much sentiment against this ruling. Digital software sale and distribution is just supposed to make software management easier and faster. A license is the same regardless of wether it's physical or digital. Why shouldn't this apply to resale of said merchandise? I rarely say this- but the French really make a ton of sense here.

It absolutely makes sense. All content licenses should be resaleable. But this will have serious ramifications for how we "buy" content. If you can buy a game, play it for 100h and them hand it off to somebody else who can do exactly the same, with the publisher/developer/store are getting nothing from those transactions, they are quickly going to find another business model. There is no degeneration like there is wi…

Why cannot they go the old (boxed-CD era) model of selling games for marginally more and not tying a sale to their services? I've always viewed Steam as an app store that comes pre-loaded with malware (since I don't use any features other than buying and updating games, yet I've had games be unplayable many times due to various Steam issues or internet glitches that broke Steam). I'd be super happy (for the French if no-one else) if they go back to just being an app store and have an additional fee for their other pointless "services".

The reason people don't infinitely resell a physical copy is not degradation - I still have CDs from probably 1996 that work fine. It's because people generally want to buy new games.

Re: French high court rules that Steam can’t ban users from reselling digital games

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. TIL regarding Google Photos. That sucks; glad I'm in the US because I use that feature often. It's great for when friends ask for the photos I took of them. In any case, I predict the Steam situation will differ because privacy and retail goods are valued differently. Americans are going to want that feature if Steam has to implement it, and they have options regarding what game store they use; it becomes a poin…

Funny enough, if you use a USA based VPN server, the option will appear on your account and you'll be able to activate it. It Will stay activr for your account even if you switch back from VPN

That's deliberate... Those kind of "annoy the customer" limitations are all for PR/legal/business reasons, and the engineers building the features want to make the restrictions as easy to get around as possible.

Re: French high court rules that Steam can’t ban users from reselling digital games

#176
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get the logic. How not reselling keeps the price down? Isn't it the other way around? There are games that are 2 or 4 years old and still have the same price as the release day. If reselling was an option it will force them to lower the price and even offer more for those buying "new".

Almost everyone I know only buys games during the big seasonal Steam sales, perhaps with the exception of the occasional “must have.” By not allowing resales, game developers are forced to offer big discounts during these sales in order to capture the “clearance bin” prices that would otherwise go to the secondary market. If reselling were possible, game publishers would never offer those discounts since resellers wo…

It's easy create a "tax" that goes to the devs for every resell. Actually that would be better than the old physical games reselling.

If forced Steam will surely put a "tax" for themselves, so why not add the devs.

Re: French high court rules that Steam can’t ban users from reselling digital games

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by technical?

Technical restrictions like online activation. While Steam does support these features, they're not the reason the platform is so sticky. It's because the community, features and sales are attractive to consumers. Most people don't feel like their games are held hostage by Steam. If they went DRM-free I do believe they'd stay just as popular.

The whole reason why Steam has gotten so popular is that it found the right balance between having DRM (big budget studios mandate it) and having that DRM to be unobstructive. Now, this going to have to change, but most people are used to online requirements so they won't notice...

Re: French high court rules that Steam can’t ban users from reselling digital games

#178

I really wonder how this will work with VAC bans and cheating. You can be banned from a game by various means VAC is one of them and Battleye is another popular tool. If a person gets banned from DayZ then they sell their game to buy a new copy that isn't banned does the buyer of their original game remain banned?

VAC bans are account based and can impact multiple games at once. A new user installing the software couldn't be tied to that account. The original user is still banned. That said you might be prevented from reselling as a form of punishment. I'm guessing that it wouldn't be difficult to set up a new account, however it couldn't be associated with the same MAC addresses.

Thing is, looks like that Valve would be prevented to forbid reselling of an account on these grounds...
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