When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness • Hacker News Board

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#171

Post by noego » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

> Still, cars without reception become vulnerable in a few scenarios: ... when the vehicle battery dies. That last scenario was the one my family and I found ourselves in

This seems like a major detail that should have been mentioned near the headline. Even if they got into the car, they would still have been stuck because the car battery was dead.

Every new technology comes with its own unique foibles and failure scenarios. One can easily imagine the very first automobile drivers getting frustrated by how their car becomes a useless lump of metal within minutes as soon as they run out of gas. "If I just had my trusty horse, this would never happen!" Fear mongering around these new failure modes makes for a fun pastime, but fundamentally pointless, unless we also consider the benefits they bring to the table.

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#172

Post by cj » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 4:44 PM UTC

jellicle wrote: post #115

fenomas wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you know that parking in the garage will lead to a 50% probability of.. 50% is GP's after-the-fact description of how often the car failed to start. It's not an actual failure rate that GP knew about before they parked.

Anyone can make an error once. Commenter talks about how they repeatedly parked the car in an underground garage that they knew had no cell signal, despite multiple towings being required. What's the appropriate number of towings for one customer due to that customer's intentional actions before you kick them off the service?

I'm the original poster. I misspoke in the original comment (too late to edit it).

Now that I think about it, I believe unlocking does work regardless of cell service (as long as you don't extend the reservation, and try to unlock it after the original reservation time ends).

I had the car towed twice:

1) First time, the car wouldn't start because the battery was dead while parked underground with no cell service.

2) Second time, the reservation was about to expire while parked without cell service, and I extended it on the app, but the car couldn't know that since the cellular unit couldn't phone home.

EDIT: For what it's worth, I don't blame Zipcar for banning an unprofitable customer. I acknowledge that i was definitely pushing my luck by parking there a 2nd time after the first incident.

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#173

Post by mcast » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 4:51 PM UTC

I've used LimePod in Seattle, you can't lock your car without cell service, which guarantees you'll only be able to unlock your car if you had service prior. The key is permanently attached to the ignition, so you could leave your car unlocked and start it later if you were in the wilderness. I wouldn't recommend taking any of these free-floating cars outside of the city because of problems like this, though.

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#174

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 5:01 PM UTC

dharmab wrote: post #142

bt848 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get a refund. I leave a phone plugged into my car's USB port 24x7 and the car has its own GSM modem too and obviously it starts right up every time.

The difference is that you're using a USB port directly built into the car (which is "smart" about not draining the battery) while the other user is using a cigarette lighter to USB adapter (the cigarette lighter is a "dumb" circuit).

[deleted]

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#175

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

jellicle wrote: post #115

fenomas wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you know that parking in the garage will lead to a 50% probability of.. 50% is GP's after-the-fact description of how often the car failed to start. It's not an actual failure rate that GP knew about before they parked.

Anyone can make an error once. Commenter talks about how they repeatedly parked the car in an underground garage that they knew had no cell signal, despite multiple towings being required. What's the appropriate number of towings for one customer due to that customer's intentional actions before you kick them off the service?

[deleted]

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#176

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

jellicle wrote: post #115

fenomas wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you know that parking in the garage will lead to a 50% probability of.. 50% is GP's after-the-fact description of how often the car failed to start. It's not an actual failure rate that GP knew about before they parked.

Anyone can make an error once. Commenter talks about how they repeatedly parked the car in an underground garage that they knew had no cell signal, despite multiple towings being required. What's the appropriate number of towings for one customer due to that customer's intentional actions before you kick them off the service?

[deleted]

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#177

Post by o_nate » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

Kneecaps07 wrote: post #135

cj wrote: post #24

I got banned from using Zipcar last year. I lived in a condo building with an under ground parking lot in SF. A few times I rented a Zipcar and left it parked in the parking lot at my condo building. About 50% of the time, the car would not unlock. In all cases, I successfully contacted Zipcar who informed me the only thing they could do is tow the car (usually 24+ hours later). The parking lot had no cell service. O…

That's why I always took the key with me, despite the fact that they tell you not to.

Interesting. If that really works, perhaps they should add a special asterisk that you should always leave the key in the car unless you're parking in an area with poor or nonexistent cell reception.

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#178

Post by xkcd-sucks » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 5:50 PM UTC

noego wrote: post #171

> Still, cars without reception become vulnerable in a few scenarios: ... when the vehicle battery dies. That last scenario was the one my family and I found ourselves in This seems like a major detail that should have been mentioned near the headline. Even if they got into the car, they would still have been stuck because the car battery was dead. Every new technology comes with its own unique foibles and failure sc…

Jumper cables and spare gas cans have been a thing for quite some time; and Li-Ion battery boosters which can start a car multiple times are small enough to carry in a pocket. Everyone driving in the wilderness should have these things in the trunk in addition to a spare tire and some water. The majority of problems which strand people are flat tires / dead batteries / overheating / no gas; which are all trivial to fix on one's own with preparedness appropriate to the environment.

Furthermore, mechanics are readily available in rural areas; and when horse transportation was common, farriers and vets were also common. These people drive out to your location and fix stuff, although you might need to walk to them without a phone. And any rural mechanic can hack a fix to the mechanical components of an internal combustion engine well enough to get it home.

So, if you accept Zipcar's terms of service ("don't remove our interlock / hack the ECU"), this is fundamentally different because it's a failure mode which only Zipcar can fix.

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#179

Post by ryacko » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 5:56 PM UTC

drfuchs wrote: post #73

mirimir wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. I should have noted that I've only done that with a 60s VW Bug. Just to see, I have turned off and restarted my ~10 year old Civic, going down a hill. But not with the battery disconnected. Maybe I'll try it. Not now, though. Edit: And upon reflection, maybe not. Because I'd have to pay someone to reset the computer. Edit: But wait a minute. If the vehicle is moving downhill, and you engage the clutch in…

Careful! Shutting off the ignition will lock the steering wheel on older cars.

That’s called powered steering.

Re: When I Took My Zipcar Into the Wilderness

#180

Post by mirimir » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 6:25 PM UTC

ryacko wrote: post #179

drfuchs wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful! Shutting off the ignition will lock the steering wheel on older cars.

That’s called powered steering.

It depends on the vehicle. Power steering can either be electric (EPS) or mechanical, with a compressor that's belt-driven off the engine. My Civic has rack-and-pinion steering with EPS. When the engine is off, it's still steerable, but there's no power assist. But you don't want to turn the ignition lock all the way off, because that does lock the steering wheel.