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Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

bighospitality.co.uk

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Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#171

Post by Relys »

jonfw wrote: post #162
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not the most unethical thing that is happening in the world I'm just going to refer to the factory farming article from 80000hours: https://80000hours.org/problem-profiles/factory-farming/ Considering that "Each year, 50 billion animals are raised and slaughtered in factory farms globally. Over a billion animals live in factory farms at any point of time in the United States. Most experience serious levels o…

People aren't going to start keeping the equivalent numbers of livestock as pets. If factory farmed animals fall out of fashion, most of these animals will all die without reproducing and their bloodlines will cease to exist. I agree that factory farming isn't ideal, but it seems to me that it is less ideal from the perspective of the animal for their entire bloodline to be terminated. To make a strong argument again…

"The question really comes down to whether or not you consider the opportunity to experience life, even a particularly difficult life, as a blessing."

A life born of slavery, torture, and slaughter is not a life worth living. An animal doesn't really have the idea of a bloodline or legacy (just the primal urge to reproduce). The rationalization that a life of suffering is somehow doing the animal a favor is just asinine.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#172

Post by jonfw »

Relys wrote: post #171
jonfw wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't going to start keeping the equivalent numbers of livestock as pets. If factory farmed animals fall out of fashion, most of these animals will all die without reproducing and their bloodlines will cease to exist. I agree that factory farming isn't ideal, but it seems to me that it is less ideal from the perspective of the animal for their entire bloodline to be terminated. To make a strong argument again…

"The question really comes down to whether or not you consider the opportunity to experience life, even a particularly difficult life, as a blessing." A life born of slavery, torture, and slaughter is not a life worth living. An animal doesn't really have the idea of a bloodline or legacy (just the primal urge to reproduce). The rationalization that a life of suffering is somehow doing the animal a favor is just asin…

Personally, I would accept any form of life before I chose not to exist at all, because I view life itself as a blessing.

I understand that this isn't a philosophy that I share with everybody but you should still be respectful of it.

Just how shitty of a life do you need to have to not be worth living? People who spend their lives in prison don't usually kill themselves. You can read stories about people captured as prisoners of war who have no hope that they will ever escape, but they don't attempt to kill themselves. Are they being "asinine"?

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#173

Post by roland35 »

i_am_nomad wrote: post #108
roland35 wrote: post #100

I am not vegan myself, but I do appreciate the huge increase in vegan options now that I am lactose-intolerant! I do enjoy ordering a vegan option with grilled chicken or bacon added if I can.

If you don’t mind me asking, how did you become lactose intolerant? I don’t know much about that aspect of biology.

I wish I knew! I had a few minor medical procedures done (wisdom teeth, under anesthesia) and then later on in the year I started getting stomach aches all the time. I don't know if that is just correlation though. I went to a GI doctor later in the year and did the lactose test to confirm it, but I wish I figured it out sooner!

The doctor told me that everyone gets more lactose intolerant to an extent as they get older, but I unfortunately have it pretty extreme in my 30's. It does force me to eat healthy whole foods though, as most processed junk foods now make me sick! So overall not so bad.

As some other commented, lactose tolerance is more of a spectrum and not a black/white thing. You may be OK with a baked product like cake but not be able to handle a milkshake for example.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#174

Post by [deleted] »

roenxi wrote: post #142
_bfhp wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the ethical-philosophical side of it interesting. In the philosophy of ethics, thought experiments can be helpful (or puzzling), like the trolley problem or the Categorical Imperative. So: Imagine if a wizard finished casting a very complicated and resource-intensive spell and the result is that every living cow, pig, chicken and turkey in the meat industry were replaced with a clone of a dog you've met. In th…

But the ethical base-case is potentially that none of those cows, pigs, chickens or turkeys are ever born. Case by case we couldn't say, but statistically a lot of farm animals are going to be reliant on human logistics, organisation and protection to survive in the numbers that they do. So the question might reasonably be 'are the conditions these animals face worse than never existing?'.

[deleted]

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#175

Post by mytailorisrich »

nicoburns wrote: post #46
strict9 wrote: post #16

After 15 years of not eating meat, the past 1-2 years have been a golden era of vegetarian options in the grocery store, restaurants, and fast food. Based on anecdotes and my social circles, the number of people completely avoiding meat hasn't changed. But omnivores adopting a semi-veg lifestyle has increased. If I had to pick one thing, I'd say environmental concerns are the main reason my omnivore friends and colle…

At least in London, there has been a big uptick in veganism in the last year or so. Helped by mainstream supermarkets and restuarants adding vegan options en mass.

If you don't buy a lot of ready-made meals you notice that supermarkets have always had plenty of vegetarian and vegan options.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#176

Post by aoeusnth1 »

Vinnl wrote: post #148
Iv wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me that's a mix of ethical and environmental concerns. I agree that there is a point in the belief that it is unethical to kill animals. That's not the most unethical thing that is happening in the world, there are a lot of things to argue about, but in general, I agree that in an ideal world, we should not do that. The environmental concerns, I only buy half-heartedly. I don't really believe that land-owners wil…

> But I reduced my consumption more and more. It was surprising to see how my taste changed. I experienced the same, which was really odd. I guess you can learn to like (or dislike) a taste. The other thing I noticed that concerns about suffering started to weigh far stronger for me once the environmental concerns made me stop eating meat. I think that I subconsciously ignored or trivialised a lot of the information…

Same, I switched for environmental reasons and only then stopped poo-poohing the animal suffering. There's arguably motivated reasoning on both sides - when I was a meat eater, I was motivated not to care, and now that I'm not, I am motivated to justify my lifestyle.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#177

Post by Relys »

nabnob wrote: post #137
schnevets wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, it's less about new products and more about people's tastes. People are eating very different things now because of new popularity in some cuisines (Indian, Thai, and Mexican come to mind) and the popularity of "superfoods" (Avocado, Acai berry... ever notice there are never any animal-based superfoods?).

Sure, if you're looking only for foods labelled "superfoods". But there's also the popularity of low-carb diets like paleo and keto that treat animal fat as healthy.

Eh, there's a lot of "dirty keto" diets out there. I think it's more important to eat whole foods (unprocessed) and source most macro nutrients (and healthy fats) from a plant based diet + the occasional fish and chicken.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#178

Post by [deleted] »

deevolution wrote: post #158
nightski wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh yes, these super-foods that get transported half way around the world for us to consume. Much better for the environment.

Buy local. Takes a second to glance at the distributor location - though it's not always clear when buying fresh unpackaged fruit and veggies where they were sourced from. Personally I'd like to see more of that information available at supermarkets and online.

[deleted]

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#179

Post by xeromal »

strict9 wrote: post #84
everythingswan wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the constraints based on where you live? I knew someone who grew up heavily on beef since she was from a small, rural country. Is it a similar reason? I'm interested in food insecurity and related things, which is why I ask.

I grew up and lived in a rural area (southern appalachians in the US) and it was not easy. Small town restaurants often have zero options, living near a taco bell was about the best you can hope for. Not even morningstar farms veggie burgers in grocery stores. But that was 10 years ago, things are different now. Whenever I go home for Christmas I'm amazed at what's available.

Howdie neighbor. I lived in North GA and experienced the same woes. There's still 10 fast food restaurants per 1 wholesome restaurant. I'll know we've made it when waffle house serves veggie sausage. haha.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#180

Post by rhn_mk1 »

yters wrote: post #146
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not the most unethical thing that is happening in the world I'm just going to refer to the factory farming article from 80000hours: https://80000hours.org/problem-profiles/factory-farming/ Considering that "Each year, 50 billion animals are raised and slaughtered in factory farms globally. Over a billion animals live in factory farms at any point of time in the United States. Most experience serious levels o…

Do the animals experience more suffering than if they lived in the wild? Is industrial slaughter more or less traumatic than death in the wild? Are there any benefits animals experience living in captivity vs living in the wild? Is there anything positive about more such animals getting to live in the first place due to demand for meat?

Those are good questions, but about a different topic (except the last one). The choice here is not between raising animals for eating in factories as opposed to raising them in the wild. It's between raising them in factories versus not bringing them to life at all.

Wild animal suffering is a different beast altogether.

Your last question is on the point though. Do the animals raised for meat have lives worth living?

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