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How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

parenting.nytimes.com

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Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#171

Post by koolba »

reallydontask wrote: post #50
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #42

Looking into the T drop in fatherhood, the original study seems to account for self reports of 'sleep quality' but I wonder if sleep deprivation is not still a confounder in this finding. Annedoctally as a recent father of a 6 month old, I would likely self report a good sleep quality in a questionnaire. However, objectively I know I sleep about 5 hours 30min yesterday evening, which would be sufficient sleep 'depriv…

> Annedoctally as a recent father of a 6 month old, I would likely self report a good sleep quality in a questionnaire. However, objectively I know I sleep about 5 hours 30min yesterday evening, which would be sufficient sleep 'deprivation' to impact T production. When our 9 month old started to sleep through the night (at around 4-5 months), we'd get between 5-6 hours of sleep, which after the interrupted sleep of t…

> When our 9 month old started to sleep through the night (at around 4-5 months), we'd get between 5-6 hours of sleep, which after the interrupted sleep of the previous 4 months, felt like a full night's sleep but this is sleep deprivation territory, specially given the fact that it was 7 days a week.

Assuming you have the space for it, I never understood couples that insist on both parents being woken up every night by a newborn. Much better for everyone involved to trade off nightly so that the other person can get a full nights rest.

I'm 99% certain that no baby cares that only one parent is being disturbed.

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#172

Post by legooolas »

paultopia wrote: post #123
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #42

Looking into the T drop in fatherhood, the original study seems to account for self reports of 'sleep quality' but I wonder if sleep deprivation is not still a confounder in this finding. Annedoctally as a recent father of a 6 month old, I would likely self report a good sleep quality in a questionnaire. However, objectively I know I sleep about 5 hours 30min yesterday evening, which would be sufficient sleep 'depriv…

I was wondering this too. Every new parent seems to report that they basically don't sleep for a year or two. That has got to account for a lot of the biological changes in parenthood. (Honestly, I'd really want to know about likelihood of dying in a car accident or other heavy machinery sleep-deprivation-induced-screwup.)

> Every new parent seems to report that they basically don't sleep for a year or two

I'm a new parent, and I'm pleased to say that our 5-week-old is sleeping really, really well. I was not expecting this after all the horror stories others told... I did, however, feel like I aged about 10 years in the first week as my other half had an emergency C-section and I had to do everything for both her and the baby.

Nothing like getting thrown in at the deep end! :D

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#173

Post by mleo »

DrAwdeOccarim wrote: post #116
reallydontask wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Annedoctally as a recent father of a 6 month old, I would likely self report a good sleep quality in a questionnaire. However, objectively I know I sleep about 5 hours 30min yesterday evening, which would be sufficient sleep 'deprivation' to impact T production. When our 9 month old started to sleep through the night (at around 4-5 months), we'd get between 5-6 hours of sleep, which after the interrupted sleep of t…

I haven't noticed the "anything about a newborn/small child must be 100% positive" in my group of friends, especially my work colleagues. I've been pretty straight forward about how hard the whole thing has been, especially adding a second child to the mix before the first one was 2 yo. I wouldn't recommend having a second child to anyone unless they really, really wanted it. It's hard af. Logarithmically harder than…

I can see the social media aspect of presenting the perfect child persona, but it is BS.

Going to three is exponentially harder. With two, one parent can usually manage both or worse each can manage one kid. Go to three and parents are outnumbered. And generally only two kids ever get along at one time, so there always the outlier. Even numbers are best it seems.

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#174

Post by jsilence »

gwbas1c wrote: post #166
agent008t wrote: post #132

So, reading this thread is making me really not want to have children. Seems like one would have to be completely insane to voluntarily sign up for that. People that have children. Do you think it was honestly a good idea in retrospect, and if so, why? If your wife had been on the fence about having children, would you have preferred to go child-free, in retrospect?

Yes, but I consider children fulfillment of instinctual needs. As I've seen my grandparents age and see how my extended family works, I just can't see myself childless. If you don't want children, don't worry about it. Population increases exponentially.

"Population increases exponentially"

No, it does not any more. See talks of Hans Rosling.

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#175

Post by ImprovedSilence »

martythemaniak wrote: post #164
agent008t wrote: post #132

So, reading this thread is making me really not want to have children. Seems like one would have to be completely insane to voluntarily sign up for that. People that have children. Do you think it was honestly a good idea in retrospect, and if so, why? If your wife had been on the fence about having children, would you have preferred to go child-free, in retrospect?

Imagine if you just read about the negatives of Ivy-League schools - the insane admissions process, the cost, the pressures, the depression, the sleep deprivation, the drug abuse, the suicides, etc. You'd think people must be crazy to go there, yet when you weight it against the benefits, it turns out that basically anyone that can go there, should go there. I think parenting, like school, is also a very high-effort,…

Honestly I’ve loved every second of it. Granted, Ive only got one, and she’s pretty easy going so far and never had problems sleeping the night once she was out of “needs food every 2 hr stage”. Yeah, things change, I don’t go out to the bars to socialize as much (or at all) any more. Most of my friends don’t have kids yet (but some do). Having said that, I need to constantly be “changing” or “growing” in life. There are only so many years I can go drinking with friends every weekend until it gets boring and I need a new adventure in life. I travel less too, but still made it to Europe for a week this year (with baby in tow). Your life doesn’t have to stop, but the things you do change. And yeah, I love it. I am also not usually one of the ones that bemoan all the lost sleeep or what have you in comments here. I would imagine I’m not the only one who stays positive.

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#176

Post by tlear »

paultopia wrote: post #123
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #42

Looking into the T drop in fatherhood, the original study seems to account for self reports of 'sleep quality' but I wonder if sleep deprivation is not still a confounder in this finding. Annedoctally as a recent father of a 6 month old, I would likely self report a good sleep quality in a questionnaire. However, objectively I know I sleep about 5 hours 30min yesterday evening, which would be sufficient sleep 'depriv…

I was wondering this too. Every new parent seems to report that they basically don't sleep for a year or two. That has got to account for a lot of the biological changes in parenthood. (Honestly, I'd really want to know about likelihood of dying in a car accident or other heavy machinery sleep-deprivation-induced-screwup.)

It is the martyrdom story that is dumb. There are two of you there is absolutely zero reason for both not to have decent sleep.

First couple weeks sure after that.. get a second bed, couch whatever. Separation of concern works way better one takes care of the kids other takes care of $$.

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#177

Post by nradov »

KaiserPro wrote: post #81

my changes: o hair loss (Eldest's birth and early life was traumatic) o Loss of short term memory (mostly temporary, sleep loss related.) o loss of hearing (eldest was fond of screaming) o grey hair. We split child care into two shifts. I took nights, wife took days. Hence why I had less sleep than the wife.

It seems unlikely that a child could scream loud enough to cause significant hearing loss.

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#178

Post by akgoel »

DrAwdeOccarim wrote: post #116
reallydontask wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Annedoctally as a recent father of a 6 month old, I would likely self report a good sleep quality in a questionnaire. However, objectively I know I sleep about 5 hours 30min yesterday evening, which would be sufficient sleep 'deprivation' to impact T production. When our 9 month old started to sleep through the night (at around 4-5 months), we'd get between 5-6 hours of sleep, which after the interrupted sleep of t…

I haven't noticed the "anything about a newborn/small child must be 100% positive" in my group of friends, especially my work colleagues. I've been pretty straight forward about how hard the whole thing has been, especially adding a second child to the mix before the first one was 2 yo. I wouldn't recommend having a second child to anyone unless they really, really wanted it. It's hard af. Logarithmically harder than…

I have a third child, and getting outnumbered was even harder still. But I do recommend getting the children as close together as possible, because the longer you wait between them, the more years the sleep deprivation lasts.

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#179

Post by daddoo »

agent008t wrote: post #132

So, reading this thread is making me really not want to have children. Seems like one would have to be completely insane to voluntarily sign up for that. People that have children. Do you think it was honestly a good idea in retrospect, and if so, why? If your wife had been on the fence about having children, would you have preferred to go child-free, in retrospect?

I have a 4 and 2 year old. It was the best thing to happen to me in a personal and professional sense.

It is difficult. The first year is hard. It’s hard to even draw parallels to. You know how it’s like to learn to ride a bike or a new language or play a musical instrument when you’ve never played one before? It’s like that almost everyday for the first few months at least. You will be sleep deprived. You will be in auto pilot doing things you wonder how/why you did it.

But the reward is amazing! You have the opportunity to do right in the world. You can raise kids that’ll add sanity to your worldview. I’m raising my kids to be empathetic and kind human beings. My older one unprompted goes to the shy kid on the playground and involves him/her. That’s so rewarding to see. He cares for his brother to the extent that he’ll ask us to go “let it go” when we try to get the younger one through his tantrum.

Now, why was it the best thing to happen to me professionally? 2 things: 1. Something better be a fucking good reason for me to spend time on it. Stupid meeting? Sorry, I’m busy I’m walking out to do other work. Random chit chat in a meeting that’s running late? I’m cutting that shit down. I’ve learned to value my time like execs value their time. I’m not rude but I have become very particular. Something has to be worth my time to take me away from spending time with my kids. 2. After parenting most things feel easy to me. Exec presentation? Give me an hour. Train a new person with a bad attitude. Pfft. I can handle that without getting upset. Deal with an aggressive Engineering Manager. Yeah I got skills to calm this person down. Stand up for the quite colleague in the corner? You bet I’ve noticed it and intervened to seek their input.

It has been my observation and experience that if you don’t do so patronizingly, a lot of how to talk to a child can be applied to grown ups with marvelous results.

All of this though is if you’re ready for it. I knew I was when I realized I wanted to share my view of the world with someone I was caring for. Good luck!

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#180

Post by mkane848 »

jkestner wrote: post #137
DrAwdeOccarim wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't noticed the "anything about a newborn/small child must be 100% positive" in my group of friends, especially my work colleagues. I've been pretty straight forward about how hard the whole thing has been, especially adding a second child to the mix before the first one was 2 yo. I wouldn't recommend having a second child to anyone unless they really, really wanted it. It's hard af. Logarithmically harder than…

Maybe the only constant is that every child is different. We had two close together, and it became a net positive about two years in, when they could keep each other occupied much of the time. And they'll have a built-in best friend. We talk about our personal perspective, but what do you wish your parents did for you?

That's assuming things go well. My two older siblings are, uh, let's just say they're not very close and dealing with them growing up was an experience in and of itself.
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