I lived in a city with extensive public transportation infrastructure (Moscow) for 7 years without a car. TBH, I would not trade my current suburban US lifestyle for a high density city. Want groceries? Gotta carry them in all the way from the store (which usually within walking distance, but still, shit's heavy unless you buy groceries every day, which can be quite wasteful). Job not within walking distance (which i…
The wheel is 5,000 years old. How did you spend 7 years walking to the grocery store without realizing you could buy a cart instead of carrying your groceries by hand?
Also I live in a dense city and have a 10 minute subway commute. A regular city lifestyle does not involve a 2 hour commute, you just lived too far from work for your own good.
There is pushback against car-impacting measures in Europe too, make no mistake. The yellow jackets in France started as a protest against increase in tax on petrol. The previous president in France, Hollande, had to roll back a toll system. It took Paris 2 years of legal battles to close the roads along the Seine. The major difference, compared witg the US, is that at least in an urban setting, in Europe you can ima…
I don't know how it is in the USA but in France (and I suspect most old European cities) the richer people who can afford to live in the city center are generally in favor of removing cars because they either don't have a car or can afford to pay for a private parking spot while people who live in the suburbs and take their cars to work every day have to suffer the consequences. So you end up with this "class warfare…
Ive lived in Chicago for 20 years now. Between the L and Metra systems, Chicago's public works pretty great if you want to get from the suburbs into the Loop. I dont have much experience using rhe CTA or PACE bus systems. The transit system is pretty awful if you need to make an orbital commute, say from west suburbs to north, which I did for 2 years. Morning commute wasn't too bad, typically 40 minutes for 25 miles. Evening commute was typically 60 mins, maybe 90 or 120 depending on the number of accidents for the same 25 miles, on rare occasions 180 mins for bad weather. Conversely, the quickest scheduled public transit for my commute was at 180 mins each way. Had to go all the way into the Loop, then back out again. Faced with a normal 2 hour round driving trip vs 6 hour round public trans trip, yeah, I'm going to drive. New job, pays better, and spend 40 minutes in the car. Yeah, theres public trans options, but itd mean spending 3-4 hours commuting and a shit ton of walking that frankling I'm not up for 9 months of the year (either way too hot or way too cold).
Spent the last 6 months in Seoul and the surrounding cities in Korea. Never needed a car. You can literally do everything without a car, everything is a short walk. I truly believe it makes a huge positive impact on happiness when you can just walk anywhere instead of having to drive. Also you'll notice that in Korea/Japan there are way more small businesses and things to do (eg. karaoke, cafes, etc) because people o…
I went fishing today and had to drive some very sketchy, not-on-google-maps dirt roads to get to the first spot I tried. What happens to that sort of thing once we're all living in walkable condos and depending on driverless Uber for exceptions?
You rent a car that you can drive yourself to wherever you want. Over the long term in a walkable city, that is definitely cheaper than owning a car.
I’m personally not a huge fan of driving everywhere. But I wonder whether HN’s view on this isn’t out of touch with the average middle class American’s. The average American commute is 48 minutes round trip, significantly shorter than France (71 minutes), Italy (65 minutes), or Spain (61 minutes): https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF2_6_Time_spent_travelling... That’s mainly because Europe has higher public transit us…
Maybe that average Parisian commute is slower, but more pleasant. Walking and taking in the environment is certainly more positive for the body and mood (on average). You also encounter tons of other people, building social value, even without any direct interactions. Reading or daydreaming also become options when not focused on the road. Time isn't the only measurement.
You are probably correct that the average American, however, doesn't see it from that perspective.
I’m personally not a huge fan of driving everywhere. But I wonder whether HN’s view on this isn’t out of touch with the average middle class American’s. The average American commute is 48 minutes round trip, significantly shorter than France (71 minutes), Italy (65 minutes), or Spain (61 minutes): https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF2_6_Time_spent_travelling... That’s mainly because Europe has higher public transit us…
I tend to agree, but I think it's worth considering that public transit commutes might be longer because people find time on public transit more pleasant, and are willing to do more of it.
To look at two extremes, 45 minutes of bumper-to-bumper stop-and-go driving is a lot less compelling than 45 minutes of reading on a commuter train with a comfortable seat.
I lived in a city with extensive public transportation infrastructure (Moscow) for 7 years without a car. TBH, I would not trade my current suburban US lifestyle for a high density city. Want groceries? Gotta carry them in all the way from the store (which usually within walking distance, but still, shit's heavy unless you buy groceries every day, which can be quite wasteful). Job not within walking distance (which i…
The wheel is 5,000 years old. How did you spend 7 years walking to the grocery store without realizing you could buy a cart instead of carrying your groceries by hand? Also I live in a dense city and have a 10 minute subway commute. A regular city lifestyle does not involve a 2 hour commute, you just lived too far from work for your own good.
Moscow is quite large, and it is unlikely that your job will be nearby. You should consider yourself lucky if you have only a 10 minute commute, few people are lucky like that. Just getting to the city center (where the job is likely to be) from the periphery (where one is likely to live) can easily take: 10 minutes walking, 5 or so minutes waiting for the right bus to get to the nearest subway station, 5-7 minutes of riding the bus, 15-20 minutes riding the subway (more if there are transfers), etc. That's one way. And it assumes you don't have to ride the bus or walk much on the other end (which is often not the case). In the winter the above ground part of the journey implies -30C weather conditions, slippery sidewalks, and other "fun" challenges.
Arguments like this ignore the billions of dollars that maintain and create highways, roads, parking lots that the government already invests in. The blindspot regarding this "freedom" which apparently to some people exists magically is astounding. The government created the current layout of cities by building highways and making laws and regulations that birthed the city structure we have today. It did not develop…
The let me astound you even more that there also exist such things as off-road vehicles, natural roads (think of countries like SA or AUS), and that .gov cannot just bomb all it's roads away in an instant, like they could stop all trains and most flights.
But most people don’t drive off-road vehicles anyway, so redesigning cities to prioritize trains over minivans does nothing to increase the population’s dependence on government infrastructure. The minivans won’t work without the roads the government built either.
I went fishing today and had to drive some very sketchy, not-on-google-maps dirt roads to get to the first spot I tried. What happens to that sort of thing once we're all living in walkable condos and depending on driverless Uber for exceptions?
You rent a car that you can drive yourself to wherever you want. Over the long term in a walkable city, that is definitely cheaper than owning a car.
Or an autonomous vehicle picks you and your friends up and the experience doesn't just start at the time of arrival to the destination.
I’m personally not a huge fan of driving everywhere. But I wonder whether HN’s view on this isn’t out of touch with the average middle class American’s. The average American commute is 48 minutes round trip, significantly shorter than France (71 minutes), Italy (65 minutes), or Spain (61 minutes): https://www.oecd.org/els/family/LMF2_6_Time_spent_travelling... That’s mainly because Europe has higher public transit us…
Houston is indeed utopia (at least for some), there are not enough resources on this planet to get a large house with pool to 7 billion people.
Spent the last 6 months in Seoul and the surrounding cities in Korea. Never needed a car. You can literally do everything without a car, everything is a short walk. I truly believe it makes a huge positive impact on happiness when you can just walk anywhere instead of having to drive. Also you'll notice that in Korea/Japan there are way more small businesses and things to do (eg. karaoke, cafes, etc) because people o…
Don't let be fooled by the "tourist impression".
Staying for some days isn't the same as living in a place, involving commuting to work, bringing children to school, etc
Every city looks nice as a Tourist, but then it's hard if you live there and in the false zone of the city (=farest away)