Terminating Service for 8Chan • Hacker News Board

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#171

Post by madamelic » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:43 AM UTC

jquery wrote: post #156

I'm pretty sure more Twitter and Facebook users have become mass killers than 8ch users. The first comment to the guy on 8ch who posted the manifesto was "hello FBI". Not a 8ch user but they don't appear to support shootings. I'm more familiar with 4chan shenanigans and they definitely don't support it, with any threat of real-life violence being met with something along the lines of "[alphabet agency] fuck off". Not…

>I'm more familiar with 4chan shenanigans and they definitely don't support it

The origin story of 8chan from what I understand is that it is all of the people who had too extreme of views for 4chan... which created an echo chamber to further radicalize and ferment.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#172

Post by devmunchies » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:43 AM UTC

anonu wrote: post #114

Very well written and cogent post. But as they point out, the internet is designed to be open and free. And this type of hateful content will still have a platform. There's sadly nothing that can be done about that. You can always suppress and control speech, but the people who want to hear it will also always find a way to seek it out.

Why should we censor hateful speech? Do you mean violent speech? Whenever I come across hateful speech I usually chuckle, roll my eyes, and move on.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#173

Post by roenxi » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:43 AM UTC

untog wrote: post #113

umvi wrote: post #34

It would be better if cloudflare terminated service for all media outlets. Every time you turn a mass shooting into a national spectacle, it inspires copycats in rapid succession as we've just seen. Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically). Keep it local news, don't publish the name of the killer, basically keep the story away from the front line…

> Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically) Logic like that is usually applied to forces of nature. Or at least things that provide utility in return for this risk (e.g. cars). Mass shootings don't really fit that mould. "stop telling people things" strikes me as a strange response. We could have a nationwide epidemic of mass shootings flying unde…

> We could have a nationwide epidemic of mass shootings flying under the radar entirely.

There are published statistics. They suggest that the focus should be on car safety, driving and worrying about bad habits that have health impacts. We'd know if there was a problem and the evidence is that your greatest enemy is you. It'd be interesting to get statistics on how many of these shootings are linked to drug abuse though.

> Logic like that is usually applied to forces of nature.

Good decisions that feel bad will get a better result than bad decisions that feel good. Politics is almost always improved by people taking deep breaths and not focusing too much on what is happening today - ideally using logic although simply sticking to process is good enough for me.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#174

Post by sysbin » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:44 AM UTC

untog wrote: post #128

sysbin wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Given that, this seems like a reasonable exercise of that power, and that's about the best we can hope for. Maybe, this event may become the precedent for all future hosting providers of unpopular opinions and where denial of service attacks become used against these hosting providers. Losing protection from anti-ddos service(s) becomes a process to eliminate the unpopular opinions being expressed. I think this is d…

> Maybe, this event may become the precedent for all future hosting providers of unpopular opinions Maybe it won't! I feel like every time a controversial site gets shut down message boards are flooded with slippery slope arguments, but by and large I haven't seen it ever transpire.

Yours & my lifetime are limited.

How many controversial topics can we recall that we lived through and where they became accepted overtime? What medium was used at the time and was it the popular communication method for the time. I'm sure historically there was a similar fight with what mediums were available at the time. Burning books or just killing someone who speaks out.

The internet can be the only method nowadays where people with little finances can make a loud enough voice be heard and there are still unpopular views I'm worried won't ever get accepted if people are not being cautious about throwing away measures. That's why the slippery slope argument is worth me typing. Even if maybe it won't!

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#175

Post by tomlockwood » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:44 AM UTC

cyberferret wrote: post #124

tomlockwood wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All around the world people listen to and see the same news stories. I woke up yesterday thinking that the media was reporting on the same mass shooting, but I figured out it was another new and predictably American assault rifle massacre pretty quickly.

I don't know why you are getting downvoted. It is the same here. Every time I see a US city name in my Twitter sidebar here in Australia, I just know that it is another mass shooting without having to click. I hate that it has become so common now that I have just stopped clicking to find out more about them. This sort of thing used to horrify me, but nowadays I just feel so numb about it, and that scares me because…

I also wonder if Americans who think this is a problem with the media inspiring more shootings would take the same tack on reporting terrorist incidents. Wouldn't it make sense to say we shouldn't report on them, given that attitude?

I'm a US/AU dual citizen and I've visited America quite often over the last few years, and it feels like we hear about the shootings only very slightly less in Australia than in the US. Here they're still front page news, and my co-workers are all talking about them.

Had some friends from San Diego and Houston over in the last few weeks and the commented on how safe Sydney feels, even in the grimy parts. They said that they had a need for situational awareness at all times in the US, but here it feels like it wasn't so necessary. At this point I'm certainly not looking at America as the safe haven of liberal democracy or freedom. I feel freer walking around the streets near public housing here than I do in the financial district in SF. But I guess in America you get to own guns with a high clip capacity, bump stocks, and get to post white nationalist manifestos on message boards? Cool.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#176

Post by tdxcbkifxx » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:44 AM UTC

ipython wrote: post #140

selectodude wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but now they can be DDoS’d.

Isn’t the DDoS a form of free speech though? At the risk of being uber pedantic, on the internet, speech is reduced to packet delivery from source to destination. Therefore, one could make an argument that DDoS protection is in itself stifling free speech?

Not even close

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#177

Post by illuminati1911 » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:44 AM UTC

samstave wrote: post #161

umvi wrote: post #34

It would be better if cloudflare terminated service for all media outlets. Every time you turn a mass shooting into a national spectacle, it inspires copycats in rapid succession as we've just seen. Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically). Keep it local news, don't publish the name of the killer, basically keep the story away from the front line…

I am completely against not publishing the name of the shooter. I want to know who these shitbags are. I want their entire family shamed. Who was the shitty ass parents who raised the murderer? Who were his failed doctors or teachers of friens who failed to help prevent. I want to know every god amn detail about this person.. Look at vegas. Look at the failed police/FBI/CIA/whatever investigation that has provided ZE…

I this sarcasm? I honestly find it hard to believe someone would post something like this on HN seriously.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#178

Post by SheinhardtWigCo » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:44 AM UTC

King-Aaron wrote: post #108

colejohnson66 wrote: post #100

CloudFlare is not a notice board. They are practically a utility. PG&E aren’t a government, and they can’t cut off your electricity because you’re an extremist. What about ISPs? Should Cox, Comcast, Frontier, etc be liable for what flows through their pipes? Media companies say yes, but what do you do when your ISP says “bye” because you visit 4chan? Go to another ISP? In most areas of the US, you can’t

> They are practically a utility. LOL. They are not.

They kinda are. DDoS protection is only viable at massive scale, but is table stakes for any website with content that someone out there might find objectionable.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#179

Post by elliekelly » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:44 AM UTC

cambalache wrote: post #142

mcny wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the "Free Speech is freedom from government prohibition and this is a private company" brigade. I dont want to live in a world where color people is being prohibited to enter a night venue, or gay people cannot order a simple cake, or YES, dude who think their race is more superior being able to blabber their nonsense online as long as it is nothing illegal. After all similar sentiments are expressed (veiled or…

I see your point, but violation of TOS has to be a very clearly defined situation and it is rarely is, at the end it can be ambiguously interpreted to kick anyone if you have the right lawyers, so we are back to step 1.

I suspect GP was referring to Computer Fraud & Abuse Act where 1 ToS violation is a federal crime.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#180

Post by busymom0 » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:44 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #135

colejohnson66 wrote: post #100

CloudFlare is not a notice board. They are practically a utility. PG&E aren’t a government, and they can’t cut off your electricity because you’re an extremist. What about ISPs? Should Cox, Comcast, Frontier, etc be liable for what flows through their pipes? Media companies say yes, but what do you do when your ISP says “bye” because you visit 4chan? Go to another ISP? In most areas of the US, you can’t

A utility is typically a natural monopoly providing some sort of essential service. Cloudflare is neither.

Telecom companies like AT&T aren't providing "essential service". Being able to call/text someone is not a "essential service". Yet they are not supposed to ban people because they are merely the carrier.