Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#171

Post by greglindahl » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 2:37 AM UTC

tzakrajs wrote: post #124

SEJeff wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? I've had this happen to me once, but it was due to a battery fault (in the 12V battery amusingly, not the main battery that powers the car) stemming from some arse in a Jeep that hit me the week prior. Tesla sent a "ranger" out who fixed it in my garage in a few hours. Try that with your toyota!

Use Google there are too many first hand accounts on Reddit and Twitter to source here. Talk to people who own Teslas and they will bitch about their experience. Tesla annoys their customers constantly with things like: inaccurate battery charge indicators, no support for CarPlay or Android Auto, updates breaking functionality in their cars, promises for self driving which never materialize, and much more. I am sure…

That totally explains why Tesla has great customer loyalty numbers. Perhaps collecting anecdotes on Reddit and Twitter isn't a very accurate gauge of consumer sentiment?

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#172

Post by greglindahl » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 2:52 AM UTC

kosievdmerwe wrote: post #166

HeadsUpHigh wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No that's correct. OP is talking bs.

Well why is Musk listed as a Founder in the side bar then? Here's a quote from the article: "Eberhard and Tarpenning were the original founders and incorporated Tesla, while Musk, Straubel and Wright joined in a Series A round later on. A lawsuit settlement agreed to by Eberhard and Tesla in September 2009 allows all five to call themselves founders."

Founder is a label assigned by a company, it doesn't have the absolute meaning you appear to think it has. Two of the three Silicon Valley startups I've founded have founders who were not full-time on day zero.

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#173

Post by et2o » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 5:33 AM UTC

clouddrover wrote: post #169

SEJeff wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? I've had this happen to me once, but it was due to a battery fault (in the 12V battery amusingly, not the main battery that powers the car) stemming from some arse in a Jeep that hit me the week prior. Tesla sent a "ranger" out who fixed it in my garage in a few hours. Try that with your toyota!

> Try that with your toyota! In some countries new Toyotas come with two years maintenance and 24-hour roadside assistance: https://www.toyota.com/toyota-care And even after that period you can have any mobile mechanic come to your home to service your car. It's not a novelty or something exclusive to Tesla.

You are not getting the level of service in the United States that Tesla owners get, which is far more than roadside assistance. Not even remotely comparable.

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#174

Post by et2o » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 5:35 AM UTC

almost_usual wrote: post #88

diegocg wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The most fundamental difference is thinking about the factory really as a product, as a quite vertically integrated product," said Musk. "It's treating it as more of an engineering and a technical problem as well," added Chief Technical Officer J.B. Straubel. "Which is the Toyota Production System," replied Johnson. "Yeah, we don't think so," countered Musk.

The fact his ego is this big is amazing. I would be shocked if I saw one vehicle on the road today manufactured by Tesla in thirty years.

You'd have to ignore the substantial progress Tesla has made to date against overwhelming odds. Will return to this in 30 years!

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#175

Post by clouddrover » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 6:00 AM UTC

et2o wrote: post #173

clouddrover wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Try that with your toyota! In some countries new Toyotas come with two years maintenance and 24-hour roadside assistance: https://www.toyota.com/toyota-care And even after that period you can have any mobile mechanic come to your home to service your car. It's not a novelty or something exclusive to Tesla.

You are not getting the level of service in the United States that Tesla owners get, which is far more than roadside assistance. Not even remotely comparable.

I sure hope it's not even remotely comparable. Tesla owners say Tesla's customer service is bad:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/non-existent-custome...

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#176

Post by la_barba » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 6:20 AM UTC

bllguo wrote: post #165

la_barba wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the original Forbes article and his opinions sounded very sane to me, like someone who understands the ground reality, is ambitious but also self-aware. Specifically:- "The car industry thinks they're really good at manufacturing and actually they are quite good at manufacturing. But they just don't realize just how much potential there is for improvement. It's way more than they think," Or "Musk acknowledged…

would love to hear what about those quotes seem to suggest a deep understanding to you. They seem trite and vague to me.

I was disagreeing with how a commentor summarized an article, especially so because other quotes from the same article completely discount their assessment. At the very least, can we simply agree to disagree?

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#177

Post by la_barba » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 6:45 AM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #168

la_barba wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the original Forbes article and his opinions sounded very sane to me, like someone who understands the ground reality, is ambitious but also self-aware. Specifically:- "The car industry thinks they're really good at manufacturing and actually they are quite good at manufacturing. But they just don't realize just how much potential there is for improvement. It's way more than they think," Or "Musk acknowledged…

> But they just don't realize just how much potential there is for improvement. It's way more than they think Most people would follow a statement like that by contrasting his ideas with the ideas of his competitor to demonstrate why his ideas are likely to be more effective. You know, make an actual argument. He doesn't do that. He just makes statements about his own superiority, and occasionally when reality intrud…

Nope. Most people wouldn't do that actually. The quotes were a tiny part of a conference call with wall street suits regarding Teslas 2017 fourth-quarter earnings. The topic was finance, not a lecture on lean manufacturing. Your demands do not make much sense to be honest. A CEOs job is to run the company and take advise and input from other subject matter experts. It seems like you genuinely are curious about this, so I'd advise you to speak with experts on this topic to learn more.

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#178

Post by close04 » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 7:44 AM UTC

cptskippy wrote: post #154

close04 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Fremont [...] the temperature typically varies from 43°F to 82°F and is rarely below 35°F or above 92°F. From the link I posted below. Rarely below 35F (~1.5C) is still pretty damn cold. Would you want your workplace to be "just about freezing" once in a while? What I mean is I'm pretty sure Tesla's statements are the regular PR thing any company in their position would put out, they just exaggerated a bit with…

Rarely being below 35F does not mean routinely 35F as you're implying.

You're just deflecting, those people complaining have a point. Even excluding the "comforting fact" that it's only literally freezing "rarely", having to work full shifts even at an average low of ~6-8C/43-46F, and an average high of ~16C/62F (official weather data for Dec/Jan/Feb) for ~3 months is still damn uncomfortable if not dangerous. Enough to warrant taking dangerous measures in such an environment like using a space heater. Would you like you day job to be a choice between "freezing" and "risking life threatening fire"?

If the tent would be the better choice that people actually ask for, you'd expect more of them popping up in that kind of climate. It's just the cheap and fast choice (for the company) and these are the downsides (for the employees).

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#179

Post by kalleboo » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 7:55 AM UTC

ajross wrote: post #11

stefco_ wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What concerns me is that shortcuts in industrial manufacturing processes are often directly detrimental or even fatal to workers. Heavy industry uses toxic chemicals and large, powerful machinery; cutting corners around those things is actively dangerous. Using some electrical tape in places where you'd otherwise use shrink tubing is not a big deal. But like you said, trying to cut corners on a finished hardware desi…

There's absolutely no such contention in the linked article though. It's about tape. I mean, yeah, they could be doing all kinds of crazy things. But so could anyone else who needs to ship products on tight schedules. Why single out Tesla here? I mean, would you react this way if it turned out Mazda or Audi was taping down some misassembled parts?

The whole "skipping out on bolts or parts when the assembly line is going too fast" was why everyone stopped buying American cars in favor of Japanese manufacturing with their andon cords and all that (stories of "made in america" quality went even further - my favorite was cars made on friday afternoons shipping with beer cans rattling in the doors). American manufacturers had to adopt the same strict quality manufacturing methods in order to become competitive again. If major manufacturers were caught going back to fast and loose manufacturing standards again, it would definitely be a story I'd want to read!

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#180

Post by close04 » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 8:09 AM UTC

greglindahl wrote: post #172

kosievdmerwe wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well why is Musk listed as a Founder in the side bar then? Here's a quote from the article: "Eberhard and Tarpenning were the original founders and incorporated Tesla, while Musk, Straubel and Wright joined in a Series A round later on. A lawsuit settlement agreed to by Eberhard and Tesla in September 2009 allows all five to call themselves founders."

Founder is a label assigned by a company, it doesn't have the absolute meaning you appear to think it has. Two of the three Silicon Valley startups I've founded have founders who were not full-time on day zero.

> Founder is a label

Like the "World's greatest dad" cups? Actually "founder" has a pretty clear definition: a person who establishes an institution or settlement. If Tesla wants to use it internally with a different meaning that's their prerogative of course. But outside of the company that meaning of "founder" will not follow. Like a non-routable IP if you wish.

Otherwise it's not too dissimilar to this guy [0] who copyrighted a software called "EMAIL" so now goes around claiming he invented email (years after the real thing was used). Although this guy at least has a copyright.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva_Ayyadurai#%22EMAIL%22_in...