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Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

theguardian.com

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Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#171

Post by perl4ever »

skybrian wrote: post #157
geezerjay wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Apples and oranges" is a metaphor for things that shouldn't be compared. No it's a reference to comparisons that don't make sense. You can compare as many apples you'd like with oranges, just as you can compare air travel with roadway traffic, but you'd be making absurd and meaningless comparisons.

You're just repeating yourself with different adjectives. Why "absurd"? Why "meaningless"? Why "doesn't make sense"? All I'm getting out of this is that you don't like it.

Elevators are even safer than airplanes. Why shouldn't we compare things to elevators?

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#172

Post by perl4ever »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #110
hodder wrote: post #15

This is disgusting misdirection and frankly feels fraudulent to me. The definition of fraud is as follows: Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain. What Boeing is doing meets that definition of fraud if you ask me.

The "deception" part is crucial. If I call water dihydrogen monoxide, is it deception? 737-8200 is and has for years been another name for that craft.

That's context dependent. If you know that people will be deceived by it, and you use the terminology for that purpose, then it is deception.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#173

Post by lawnchair_larry »

gumby wrote: post #150
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What company doesn’t ? Who books them otherwise?

Corporate travel department that enforces the travel policies.

Interesting. I’ve never heard of a corporate department that books your travel. Sounds like a hassle. Any company I’ve been at, big or small, just has their policy parameters enforced by third party booking tools.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#174

Post by dfeojm-zlib »

gourou wrote: post #3

> Photos have emerged of a repainted 737 Max in Ryanair colours outside Boeing’s manufacturing hub, with the name 737 Max replaced by 737-8200 on the nose. Now I'm worried about boarding any 737

Any Boeing designed, built or remanufactured in the past 20 years is fundamentally risky to the flying public because of the corrupting influence of regulatory capture, i.e., lax oversight of phases of system engineering and manufacturing, self-certification.

In 2010, Al Jazeera presented an investigative report about Boeing subcontractor Ducommun's substandard manufacturing practices for critical support structural ribs and door frames that Boeing installed on 737 NG (-600/-700/-800/-900) airframes and management subsequently covered up an internal safety investigation. As a direct consequence of these choices, several 737 NG's have broken up on hard landing and runway overruns, killing passengers, whereas in the past, fuselages survived intact under similar conditions.

Also, the 787 is a disaster waiting to happen.. anyone who steps foot on this clusterF deserves what they get.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#175

Post by brokenmachine »

chongli wrote: post #135
ulfw wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much agree with that in terms of the old 777-200(ER) and 777-300(ER). The upcoming 777-8 and -9 don't fill me with confidence though.

Yes and that's the point. As a lay person it's not my business to determine which Boeing aircraft are safe and which aren't. Boeing's conduct has dealt tremendous damage to their reputation for safety and this casts a shadow over the entire fleet. They have to do a lot of work to rebuild that reputation and restore the public trust.

As a lowly passenger I don't get to choose which plane I am assigned to, also the airline seems to change it on a whim.

At this stage I'd be unhappy to be on a modern Boeing but I don't know what I could do about it, except cross my fingers and hope I won't be the next victim. I don't know what rights I'd have to claim a refund or demand a different model plane.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#176

Post by jtnjns »

ulfw wrote: post #128
magduf wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It was created during the current management era. 2. It was built in South Carolina at a new plant that had huge production issues, such as leaving metal shavings inside the airplanes where they would get into wiring harnesses.

Let's not forget the exploding batteries which were fixed by putting a metal container around them and a hole in the hull, so when they inevitably explode again, they'll at least vent outside. It'd be okay with that shit on a bus. Not on a plane in the middle over the Pacific. How the 787 got it's ETOPS rating is beyond me. (actually it isn't. We have all witnessed how corrupt the FAA is by outsourcing it's own job t…

And this software bug that requires the plane to be turned off and on again every 248 days to prevent an integer overflow and loss of power.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/may/01/us-aviation...

https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.g...

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#177

Post by brokenmachine »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #170
vikramkr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what basis? They're trying to fix a fundamental aerodynamic design failure with a software patch. The entire physical design if the airplane is flawed, and they arent rebuilding the entire fleet, just pushing another software patch.

A downside of there being so many threads on this fiasco is that many of the same points get made each time. I'll post the usual counterpoint: this isn't a new. The F-16 for instance is also famously unstable, and cannot be flown without computer assistance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16_Fighting...

General Dynamics never claimed the F-16 was just a slightly modified Cessna in order to avoid having to retrain pilots and have it safety tested, however.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#178

Post by brokenmachine »

vikramkr wrote: post #9
matwood wrote: post #7

Regardless of the name change they are still grounded. Given all the scrutiny, when they finally do fly again they will likely be one of safest planes in the sky.

On what basis? They're trying to fix a fundamental aerodynamic design failure with a software patch. The entire physical design if the airplane is flawed, and they arent rebuilding the entire fleet, just pushing another software patch.

As I understand it, the 737 itself is not flawed, but when you add huge new engines that need to be much further forward just so they don't hit the ground, that's what makes it unstable.

The whole problem was that they were trying to pass off an airplane that now has very different handling characteristics as a 737, in order to avoid retraining and proper safety testing.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#179

Post by gbersac »

guilhermetk wrote: post #32
vikramkr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what basis? They're trying to fix a fundamental aerodynamic design failure with a software patch. The entire physical design if the airplane is flawed, and they arent rebuilding the entire fleet, just pushing another software patch.

No OP so I can't comment on his source, but I heard the exact same statement from a maintenance engineer who works on Boeing aircrafts for over 30 years ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/joselitosousa ). He also owns a youtube channel on which he discuss mainly aviation (pt/br) ( https://www.youtube.com/avioesemusicas )

its youtube is in spanish. Sad.

Re: Boeing 737 Max ordered by Ryanair undergoes name change

#180

Post by diggan »

snek wrote: post #36
diggan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found an easier way, chose an airline that uses Airbus instead of Boing. I only have to keep track of two identifiers and filtering becomes very easy.

which airbus planes do you avoid?

oarsinsync got it right. I just avoid anything Boeing (which means Airbus most of the time).
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