The forgotten joy of soap • Hacker News Board

Re: The forgotten joy of soap

#171

Post by Frondo » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 6:10 PM UTC

novok wrote: post #140

jackhack wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. 200,000 years dying at an early age from easily-preventable infections, among them cholera and dysentery which are easily spread from --yep, you guessed it-- not washing after using the toilet. And people wonder why I refuse to take part in "potluck" lunches, or eat others' foods. I need to save the URL to this discussion. I, too, cannot believe someone who does not use soap does not smell like a wild animal…

Oof, do you also wear gloves 24/7 to protect yourself from the dirty world out there too? Unless your immunocomprimised or old, your body's immune system can handle the everyday bacteria that is everywhere in the world.

There's a reason that food safety protocols in the restaurant biz are pretty strict: you don't get a biological adaptation to eating feces by eating a little feces here and there. There's a reason (well, really, several) humanity switched to processing food and water with heat (cooking meat, drinking coffee and tea) when we were coming down out of the trees.

Trying to make fun of someone who's being careful about what they eat is pretty insulting.

Re: The forgotten joy of soap

#172

Post by X6S1x6Okd1st » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 6:10 PM UTC

Pimpus wrote: post #133

ASalazarMX wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I also stopped brushing my teeth, I just wash them with water. The first month I had halitosis, but it gradually went away. I'm also more productive than ever because my coworkers have started to send me emails instead of having meetings!

We are descended from at least 7000 generations of man, and 99.9% of these ancestors had never even heard of toothpaste.

We are descended from at least 100000 generations of sapiens and 99.9% of these ancestors had never even heard of cooking.

Re: The forgotten joy of soap

#173

Post by X6S1x6Okd1st » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 6:12 PM UTC

detritus wrote: post #10

I've been using bar soap for a good few years now as it was the means of cleaning that I could most-easily buy locally that seemed to incur the least plastic impact. I like to imagine that the invested energy density and cost of transport is better too, compared to gels and liquids. Regardless of all that worthiness though - I just prefer using the stuff and am gently delighted when I walk into my bathroom and minded…

Some places also sell bar shampoo. Something you can take on planes & can be sold in simple wax paper.

Re: The forgotten joy of soap

#174

Post by pessimizer » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 6:13 PM UTC

Dirlewanger wrote: post #168

DanBC wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wash hands tens of times per day. Every time before touching food, or after touching something potentially poisonous (like eliquid, strong detergents, gasoline, etc). You may want to read this from the US CDC: When is clean too clean? https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/7/2/70-0225_article

So basically: Everyone use alcohol-based hand cleaners.

Really? They dry out your skin and leave it prone to damage in my experience. I don't know that they're better than soap.

But from the article:

> Soaps and detergents have been described as the most damaging of all substances routinely applied to skin (43). Anionic and cationic detergents are more harmful than nonionic detergents (54), and increased concentrations of surfactant result in more rapid, severe damage (55). Each time the skin is washed, it undergoes profound changes, most of them transient. However, among persons in occupations such as health care in which frequent handwashing is required, long-term changes in the skin can result in chronic damage, irritant contact dermatitis and eczema, and concomitant changes in flora.

> Irritant contact dermatitis, which is associated with frequent handwashing, is an occupational risks for health-care professionals, with a prevalence of 10% to 45% (56-58). The prevalence of damaged skin on the hands of 410 nurses was reported to be 25.9% in one survey, with 85.6% of nurses reported to have problems at some time. Skin damage was correlated with frequency of glove use and handwashing (56). Washing with plain soap may actually increase the potential for microbial transmission because of a 17-fold increase in the dispersal of bacterial colonies from the skin of the hands (59). Skin condition clearly plays a major role in risk for transmission.

Re: The forgotten joy of soap

#175

Post by Dig1t » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #33

I stopped washing with soap 6 years ago and never looked back. For the first month, my skin was so greasy all the time that it felt like I'd been wearing the same clothes for a week, just an hour after putting them on, but then my skin finally adjusted to the new normal. My skin is soft - much too soft for a man of my age, according to my wife. I have no body odor, even after a heavy workout where I'm still covered i…

"I don't smell" is the classic response of someone who smells bad. No offense, it's just that every time in my life where I've encountered someone who has said things like this, they have been someone who smells bad but people around them just weren't letting them know.

Re: The forgotten joy of soap

#176

Post by pessimizer » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

isostatic wrote: post #103

overcast wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true at all. I've traveled to most corners of the world, and the vast majority are little blocks of bar soap. Shampoo and Conditioner are usually the only in liquid form.

The only time I've encountered soap rather than shampoo has been in the US (not even Canada) and Gaza (for some odd reason, but I always stay in the same hotel there) Hotels from Brazil to Kenya, from New Zealand to China, from Pakistan to Denmark, have always had liquid soap for the shower.

I think it's more that they understand their customer base rather than a local practice.

Re: The forgotten joy of soap

#177

Post by Frondo » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 6:18 PM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #162

Pimpus wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are descended from at least 7000 generations of man, and 99.9% of these ancestors had never even heard of toothpaste.

...and simple dental work dates back to before recorded history, suggesting that cavities have always been a problem, even if they were probably much rarer before the mass use of refined sugar.

Cavities are also found in other mammals; they're not even just a human problem. Something like 5% of dogs get cavities. If you have an older dog and get their teeth cleaned, some might need to be pulled.

I even saw something about cavities in dolphins... and, if I remember right, the thing about humans not getting cavities before the advent of the modern diet stems from a dentist who had some unorthodox theories about dental care that were unsupported by systematic research.

Oh, it's the Weston Price foundation people who make that claim...

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Weston_A._Price_Foundation

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/sbm-weston-prices-appalling...

Re: The forgotten joy of soap

#178

Post by wahern » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 6:38 PM UTC

somethoughts wrote: post #158

jdlyga wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone reading this, please don't try this without honest friends or an honest spouse who will give you feedback. It works for people with specific genetics, but not for the majority.

My hunch it has as much to do with your diet as genetics, for example if you tend to eat a lot of strongly spiced food or garlic/onions.

There's a very persuasive argument that humans exhibit aposematism; in particular, that we evolved a very strong scent as a warning to potential predators. Objectively speaking, most humans have extremely strong scents relative to other animals (especially non-aposematic animals), regardless of whether we personally find it strong or offensive. This is somewhat blunted for populations at cold, northern latitudes (e.g. East Asians) that evolved fewer sweat glands, so notwithstanding our origins there are now clearly significant phenotypic variations.

A slightly more radical theory is that we also evolved the ability to dance and chant in unison for similar reasons--to intimate predators. That we evolved to wear clothing (in particular, colorful costumes and displays) would presumably be related, if true.

Re: The forgotten joy of soap

#179

Post by kzrdude » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 6:55 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #118

Insanity wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I see colleagues just leave the bathroom without washing their hands I always have an urge to say something but never do. The bad thing is that they leave before me as I wash my hands, but then like a minute later I need to use the same door they used to enter our office. :(

> When I see colleagues just leave the bathroom without washing their hands Perhaps they have mastered the art of pissing without pissing on their hands...

Hi, I don't want to shake hands with your genitals thank you.

Re: The forgotten joy of soap

#180

Post by wahern » Tue, Jul 09, 2019, 6:56 PM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #18

It's quite remarkable how successful the marketing campaign against bar soap has been such that it's somehow thought of as unclean. All to get us to switch to far, far more wasteful liquid soap.

I switched to liquid shower soap after re-grouting the bathroom. I learned that liquid soaps wash off tile far more readily, leaving less scum for mildew and mold. I miss my bar soap (I alternated between Mitchell's Wool Fat and Speick), but it's not worth hastening the day I need to re-grout. One reason I liked bar soap was it was so much more convenient and faster when showering, but that convenience pales in comparison to the inconvenience of shower maintenance and re-grouting. I was blissfully ignorant of the costs of bar soap.