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Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

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Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#171
post #21

So this research is based on a subset of 590 million or more CVs that were leaked by Chinese recruitment platforms. The author uses keywords like "华为", "Huawei", "People's Liberation Army" and "PLA" to identify people who worked for multiple institutions. That seems like a great dataset for some statistical analysis, but unfortunately we aren't even told how large the subsets are. (The figure of 590 million is from a…

> denied the allegiations in the Bloomberg article

There's that name again. Once is an accident. Twice is a coincidence. How many times has Bloomberg published an article that they can't back up?

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#172
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today is a Lucky 10000 day for you. We'll start with human rights in China [0] and look at some highlights. (Yes, every citation is to Wikipedia today. You've earned it.) * There are millions of people imprisoned in China. Could be as few as 1.5mil, but likelier around 3.5mil, [2] including likely over 1mil in "re-education" concentration camps in the Western region of Xinjiang. [1] By comparison, while the USA's leg…

Please do not haul pre-existing lists of links and talking points into HN threads. These discussions are supposed to be thoughtful conversations. Boilerplate kills that. Also, nationalistic battle is off topic here, even in a thread like this one, and your comment is a huge step in that direction. Also, please don't snark. That's in the site guidelines too. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I am honored to have been mistaken for boilerplate! Thank you. In truth, this morning I woke up, read the claim, "I don't think China is any more evil than the US," and decided to examine it. What followed was 100% my own words, off the cuff, based on reading Wikipedia and their citations and sources. (For what it's worth, not much of this resembles what I remember studying when I was younger; "modern" Chinese history focused on Mao and Deng.) I stopped after I realized that no amount of refactoring would revive footnote 14.

Please don't make insinuations about astroturfing. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you think that these aren't fresh words, then please explain where they came from.

Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. Do you have commentary on the state of human rights in China?

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#173
post #145

It's sad to see these threads get quickly out of hand with emotions getting the best of some of the HN audience. I have been commenting from time to time in these threads, but it seems impossible at times to have rational discussion. I don't really feel strongly about China one way or the another, I just know they do not always uphold the same values as I do. (And so do many other things) Anyway, I think it's importa…

I'm not sure I would consider these an unbiased opinion on China...

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#174
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do not haul pre-existing lists of links and talking points into HN threads. These discussions are supposed to be thoughtful conversations. Boilerplate kills that. Also, nationalistic battle is off topic here, even in a thread like this one, and your comment is a huge step in that direction. Also, please don't snark. That's in the site guidelines too. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I am honored to have been mistaken for boilerplate! Thank you. In truth, this morning I woke up, read the claim, "I don't think China is any more evil than the US," and decided to examine it. What followed was 100% my own words, off the cuff, based on reading Wikipedia and their citations and sources. (For what it's worth, not much of this resembles what I remember studying when I was younger; "modern" Chinese histor…

I'm sorry I mistakenly assumed your words weren't freshly written. Still, please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. We don't want it here, and there has been a dismaying surge of it lately.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#175
post #169
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you clarify one thing: if a thread has already reached the frontpage (and is in a position where it should only continue to gain popularity rather than disappear, e.g. 50 upvotes in 20 minutes), does mass flagging the thread have any influence on its score? Because from outside observations it surely seems like it does, especially when you take into consideration that I’ve on several occasions seen a thread get…

Normally I'm happy to answer questions like this. But when you repeat the very provocation that I just asked you twice to omit from your HN comments, my trust in your good faith diminishes. It's unfortunately common for some users to question HN moderation as a way of challenging the mods to political or ideological duels. Our experience with that is that no matter how patiently one answers, every answer is met with…

If you feel my tone was aggressive, condescending or negative in other ways then I’m sorry.

I think it’s an unfair interpretation to believe that I don’t want to use HN as intended, I’m just tired of seeing every thread that’s critical of China head down the same path. You said:

> That is not at all an accurate description. This is a classic example of how people feel like the site is biased against their point of view even when it's the dominant one.

The US whataboutism is undeniable, you also acknowledged it yourself, while highlighting the same thing happened with Russian threads. I think it’s naive to believe that “all this shows is what controversy is hot right now”. Because it’s a common and effective tactic that occur on all social media, and in threads that aren’t related to China/Russia, everyone usually seem to be able to behave and stay on-topic.

As for mass flagging and quick downvotes, I can only make assumptions based on personal experience and careful observations (been using HN for over half a decade and tend to refresh the site every few minutes). You seem to blame/credit moderators for causing the threads to disappear, whereas I was under the impression it was often caused by mass flagging.. so I’m genuinely curious if flagging a thread has any effect on its position, or if it simply alert a moderator to take a closer look.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/federal-judge-says-nsa-... https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/yjolt/vol11/iss1/8/ The evidence suggests that blanket surveillance is a thing, and that's it very clearly unconstitutional. Of course in this situation it's always possible to appeal to "national security" but that's an unconvincing legitimisation unless it can be proved that national security has been enhanced to an…

It's shown up in court, but defendants have had a tough time showing legal standing [1]. Keep in mind that the state secrets privilege [2] is judicially mediated. Given the lack of demonstrable, specific harm, the matter is--rightly, in my opinion--deferred to the political branches as a political question (as opposed to a legal one). That said, let's keep in mind context. Here we have a government program which we'r…

Doesn't the fact that it's a "political question" effectively argue that the US is more like China here?

The claim from upthread was:

> Unless you have some long term plans of joining their politburo and making changes 25 years from now, there's no way to way to apply direct pressure for change.

It genuinely seems like the most productive way for me to end this legal, constitutional spying (and China's spying is also legal and constitutional, mind you) is to spend 25 years being a wildly popular politician or entertainer, run for president, and issue an executive order, or to spend 25 years as an activist changing hearts and minds until there's support for a constitutional amendment banning it. There's clearly no direct way for me to apply pressure in the US.

... and if you say there's no demonstrable, specific harm, doesn't that support my claim at the top that I don't mind China spying on my traffic? Or does Chinese surveillance have demonstrable, specific harm in a way that US surveillance doesn't?

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's shown up in court, but defendants have had a tough time showing legal standing [1]. Keep in mind that the state secrets privilege [2] is judicially mediated. Given the lack of demonstrable, specific harm, the matter is--rightly, in my opinion--deferred to the political branches as a political question (as opposed to a legal one). That said, let's keep in mind context. Here we have a government program which we'r…

> Given the lack of demonstrable, specific harm, the matter is--rightly, in my opinion--deferred to the political branches as a political question (as opposed to a legal one). I'm not sure how it can be relegated completely to political representatives, given that the secreacy means that the check on representative desicions (an informed populace voting for their representatives) isn't present. > That said, let's kee…

You understand that Angela Merkel is subject to free and fair elections, which Xi is not, right?

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#178
post #175
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally I'm happy to answer questions like this. But when you repeat the very provocation that I just asked you twice to omit from your HN comments, my trust in your good faith diminishes. It's unfortunately common for some users to question HN moderation as a way of challenging the mods to political or ideological duels. Our experience with that is that no matter how patiently one answers, every answer is met with…

If you feel my tone was aggressive, condescending or negative in other ways then I’m sorry. I think it’s an unfair interpretation to believe that I don’t want to use HN as intended, I’m just tired of seeing every thread that’s critical of China head down the same path. You said: > That is not at all an accurate description. This is a classic example of how people feel like the site is biased against their point of vi…

Yes, flagging affects a submission's rank. So do moderation penalties and various software penalties. User flags are usually the main reason.
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