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The Toyota Way

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Re: The Toyota Way

#171

Post by rb808 »

Someone1234 wrote: post #156
rb808 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have though that the CEO of the world's largest investment company would count more than "one single data point". I know there are a few examples of short term investors ruining a company - but have you any examples of companies punished for choosing long term over short term?

> I would have though that the CEO of the world's largest investment company would count more than "one single data point". I said that CEO undercuts your point. You claimed short-term-ism was a "myth," then quoted a CEO saying that a lot of people focus on short term investing, rather than long term investing. Therefore making it not a myth, according to your own source.

Maybe you should actually read it. He said companies might be tempted by maximizing short-term returns because we are late in the economic cycle.

Re: The Toyota Way

#172

Post by windexh8er »

TotempaaltJ wrote: post #167
windexh8er wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deming didn't do "anything of value"? Considering Kaizen and the concept of continuous improvement in Japan is mostly attributed to him. The prime minister awarded him the Order of the Sacred Treasure and recognizes him for their post-war rebirth as an industrial power. Detroit did everything wrong at the time (see GM's disaster in automation at their Hamtramck facility [0]). Even when American execs were posed with…

I think gp was being sarcastic...

Probably, although I feel as though that perspective about Deming is, unfortunately, a reality for some.

Re: The Toyota Way

#173

Post by ak217 »

parliament32 wrote: post #143
novaleaf wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but you are wrong regarding the Toyota problem. There was (is?) a firmware issue that caused the vehicle to attempt to speed up, regardless of if the accelerator was pressed, or even if the brake was pressed. In my case, I had the brake fully depressed with around 100kg of force, and the engine was revving to attempt to overcome the brake (VERY scary situation, believe me!). The system only recovered when I…

>I had the brake fully depressed with around 100kg of force, and the engine was revving to attempt to overcome the brake No, it wasn't. An engine's speed (RPM / "revs") is directly proportional to the drivetrain speed -- the RPMs literally cannot increase unless you are 1) accelerating (actual drivetrain speed going up), 2) shift to a lower gear then slip torque converter to rev match (I assume you're driving automat…

This is just plain wrong. The poster didn't say they were at a standstill but that they had the brake pedal pressed. That means the engine could have downshifted into 1st gear and started to rev noticeably. The engine would also produce more power (and sound very different) when taking up load, even under the same RPM. Finally, as the other reply pointed out, the engine can spin a clutch or CVT.

Re: The Toyota Way

#174

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

khalvin wrote: post #166

This is no longer the case. Toyota quality is been slipping lately. I got a brand new Toyota the dealer had to replace transmission after 3k.

Where was it made? Anything outside of Japan won't benefit from the culturally pervasive perfectionism.

Re: The Toyota Way

#175

Post by ak217 »

parliament32 wrote: post #163
bagbobillins wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are mistaken. In a car with an automatic transmission, the engine RPM is related to the drivetrain speed, but not directly proportional. The input and output shafts of the torque converter always spin at different speeds during acceleration. You can try a similar experiment to the one you proposed in a car with an automatic transmission. Stand firmly on the brake (with the parking brake engaged and nothing in fro…

From a standstill yes -- the car is slipping the torque converter between disengaged (neutral, idle in a standstill) and first (to actually get going). Exactly the same as a manual, to get moving from a standstill you have to slip the clutch somewhat, and yes your RPMs will go up. But that doesn't apply when the car is already in gear and in motion. In both an auto and a manual, if you're applying enough brake to pre…

> he was probably hitting the gas and accelerating.

...Or the car was actuating the throttle as if he was hitting the gas, a.k.a. unintended acceleration.

I see a lot of people like you in this thread and elsewhere dismissing unintended acceleration experiences.

Before you continue to do so, I would urge you to read the NASA report on the Toyota unintended acceleration case and related documents (https://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/nvs/pdf/NASA-UA_report.pdf, https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_..., and the link in the top level comment, https://www.edn.com/design/automotive/4423428/Toyota-s-kille...). It lays out a damning indictment of Toyota's ECU hardware and firmware development culture, that flies directly counter to the happy picture promoted by the "Toyota Way" PR. Toyota never acknowledged the mistakes they made - instead they quietly sacked the head of that division and then most of the staff, and rebuilt it from the ground up. Today's Toyota ECUs appear to be designed quite differently.

Re: The Toyota Way

#176

Post by chubbyrabbit »

pixelbash wrote: post #134
smush wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stand corrected. Having performed some cursory 'research' I found that in the USA in 2018, according to https://www.best-selling-cars.com/brands/2018-full-year-usa-... All Lexus vehicles combined sold 92,660 units versus the 4Runner model which sold 139,694 units. A difference of 47,000 units, or roughly, the 2018 US sales for the Lexus ES

At a guess the USA is not the primary market for Lexus.

There's a joke that Lexus stands for Let's Export to the US.

Re: The Toyota Way

#177

Post by bigiain »

wyclif wrote: post #154
karthikb wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 4Runner has barely changed in 10 years. Which makes a lot of sense when you consider how and where it's used. It's easier to have service and repair infrastructure for one car with identical mechanicals over a decade than 3 or 4.

Honda makes cars. Toyota makes appliances for people who hate driving.

And Tesla make huge smartphones with seats and wheels.

Re: The Toyota Way

#178

Post by erikpukinskis »

bitwize wrote: post #84

In the 1960s, my father was a manufacturing engineer for BigTechFirm (this was back when BigTechFirms built actual stuff, rather than trafficking in webshit). On the shop floor, there were A, B, and C workers on a line in descending order of skill level required and roughly ascending order of available workers. It was a true assembly line model. I believe the A and B workers had more variety to their work but the C w…

What is webshit? It seems like you are trying to say that you don’t think web developers build anything worthwhile, but I’m hoping there’s a less insulting interpretation of your comment?

Re: The Toyota Way

#179

Post by abawany »

smush wrote: post #89
nradov wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically Toyota now has longer product lives than many other mainstream manufacturers. The Camry and Corolla are on roughly 6 year product lifecycles. The 4Runner has barely changed in 10 years.

> The 4Runner has barely changed in 10 years. To be fair, that may be a purposeful design decision. I consider the fact that the 4Runner can trace its way back to a 1980s Hilux that Top Gear dropped off a building (and still survived) to be nothing but good for its likely reliability. Similarly, its primarily dial-based dashboard (as opposed to the touch-screen everywhere fad right now), truck-based suspension, and o…

The Top Gear reference is powerful but in my opinion, meaningless. All it has done is coin the legend of the invincible Hilux. However, I did not see them or anyone try similar tricks with trucks of similar vintage, making this just a show trick.

Re: The Toyota Way

#180

Post by ethbro »

throw0101a wrote: post #96
vvanders wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

W. Deming also played a pretty large role too[1]. The whole history around Lean/Kaizen/etc is pretty fascinating. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

Deming was about quality control, which dovetails into lean: you can only do the latter if you know your parts bin is good, and that you can trust your supplier/s to deliver.

In that sense, lean is essentially the same solution as reducing buffer size to increase network throughout.

Excess capacity pooling decreases stopages but prevents signalling of problems back through the chain.

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