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San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

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Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#171

Post by sureaboutthis »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #156
munk-a wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am happy that's worked out for you - and e-cigs are definitely less dangerous than conventional cigarettes, but the adoption rate of smoking among younger folks has spiked since flavoured e-cigs were introduced. I really want vapes to be available as an alternative to conventional smoking but the companies pushing them now are addicting a lot of new users, if the market participants were more responsible these devi…

Let's play devil's advocate. Where's the proof that e-cigarettes are harmful? We have mountains of evidence that cigarettes are one of the most harmful habits one can do. Do we have proof e-cigs cause lung cancer, or other types of cancer? COPD? asthma? no, we do not. edit: people seem to be very downvote-happy on this site when they disagree with something. Combustion of tobacco produces polycyclic aromatic hydrocar…

"The nicotine in e-cigarettes and regular cigarettes is addictive. E-cigarettes are considered tobacco products because most of them contain nicotine, which comes from tobacco.

Besides nicotine, e-cigarettes can contain harmful and potentially harmful ingredients, including:

>ultrafine particles that can be inhaled deep into the lungs

>flavorants such as diacetyl, a chemical linked to serious lung disease

>volatile organic compounds

>heavy metals, such as nickel, tin, and lead"

https://e-cigarettes.surgeongeneral.gov/

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#172

Post by kortilla »

komali2 wrote: post #87
kaycebasques wrote: post #36

The HN response seems strongly negative so far. Can someone educated in the space play devil’s advocate and share ideas on why it might be a good move?

Easily. Vape usage among children and teenagers is going up. That should be stopped. https://www.drugabuse.gov/news-events/news-releases/2018/12/... >Reported use of vaping nicotine specifically in the 30 days prior to the survey nearly doubled among high school seniors from 11 percent in 2017 to 20.9 percent in 2018. More than 1 in 10 eighth graders (10.9 percent) say they vaped nicotine in the past year, and use is…

Massive tax on vaping for what harm?

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#173

Post by munk-a »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #156
munk-a wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am happy that's worked out for you - and e-cigs are definitely less dangerous than conventional cigarettes, but the adoption rate of smoking among younger folks has spiked since flavoured e-cigs were introduced. I really want vapes to be available as an alternative to conventional smoking but the companies pushing them now are addicting a lot of new users, if the market participants were more responsible these devi…

Let's play devil's advocate. Where's the proof that e-cigarettes are harmful? We have mountains of evidence that cigarettes are one of the most harmful habits one can do. Do we have proof e-cigs cause lung cancer, or other types of cancer? COPD? asthma? no, we do not. edit: people seem to be very downvote-happy on this site when they disagree with something. Combustion of tobacco produces polycyclic aromatic hydrocar…

Can I devil's devil's advocate - various players in the tobacco industry carried out a long PR campaign trying to downplay the health effects of smoking after being internally aware of them so... maybe let's wait to see if this new way to inhale tobacco is safe before accepting the word of tobacco industry participants again?

This is going by the old "Fool me once shame on you, falsely convince me that tobacco products pose no health risks twice shame on me" - I think that's how that quote goes.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#174

Post by eridius »

nradov wrote: post #29
munk-a wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is somewhat justified, smoking rates were decreasing nationally until e-cigs came into fashion, of course some conventional smokers switched which lowered the health detriments of smoking - but many more of the e-cig users are new smokers. I'd prefer a full ban but this is at least staunching what was a regression for public health. E-cigarettes, since their introduction, haven't improved public health -…

Based on that justification, perhaps SF should also consider banning people from shooting up on the sidewalk? You know, for public health.

What, ban the use of illegal products? Novel idea!

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#175

Post by [deleted] »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #62
pigscantfly wrote: post #7

This is perverse given that tobacco cigarettes are still widely available. I can't remember the last time I was actually satisfied with a decision from the Board of Supervisors.

How are they sold? In Australia they have the gory death warnings, are sold in cabinets with no logos (just a plain font list of brand names) and are ridiculously expensive $40 for 20. Cigars might be an exception(?)

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#176

Post by e40 »

I have never smoked cigarettes, and I have a severe reaction to the smoke from them, when merely walking behind people on the sidewalk. I have never had a single, negative reaction to vape smoke. My nose doesn't even detect it.

Also, I hate it when cigarette smokers throw butts on the ground or in the gutter. I've had yelling matches with people on the street over it.

I understand the issues with vaping, but seriously, this is just insane.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#177

Post by komali2 »

kortilla wrote: post #172
komali2 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easily. Vape usage among children and teenagers is going up. That should be stopped. https://www.drugabuse.gov/news-events/news-releases/2018/12/... >Reported use of vaping nicotine specifically in the 30 days prior to the survey nearly doubled among high school seniors from 11 percent in 2017 to 20.9 percent in 2018. More than 1 in 10 eighth graders (10.9 percent) say they vaped nicotine in the past year, and use is…

Massive tax on vaping for what harm?

The environmental impact that goes into making the plastics, batteries, and fluids (please don't try to catch me out on hypocrisy here: yes, I do believe the same should be true for cars, phones, and other consumer products). The environmental impact on the pens that use disposable, non recyclable cartridges. The public health impact from the increase in chance of heart attack to vape pen users.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#178

Post by e40 »

eridius wrote: post #169
zdragnar wrote: post #24

I'll never understand why lawmakers think that fruit and other flavorings for tobacco are aimed at getting kids hooked. It's almost like they think no adult has ever enjoyed fruit or candy, and that making teens smoke plain cigarettes will keep them from being rebellious. I've tried almost every variation of ecigarette mod out there except mechanical mods, because I'm not an idiot enough to know I'm too much of an id…

Adults like flavored nicotine too, but have you seen the ads? They're blatantly targeted at kids. Hell, I saw one once that showed a vape plugged into the USB port of a kid's laptop in class, where the advertising was basically saying your teacher won't know it's a vape.

Then BAN THE ADS!

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#179

Post by munk-a »

sundvor wrote: post #120
munk-a wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am happy that's worked out for you - and e-cigs are definitely less dangerous than conventional cigarettes, but the adoption rate of smoking among younger folks has spiked since flavoured e-cigs were introduced. I really want vapes to be available as an alternative to conventional smoking but the companies pushing them now are addicting a lot of new users, if the market participants were more responsible these devi…

As a non-smoker who can't stand the smell, and hate smoking with a passion, I for one would rather people vape all day. At least it's only affecting their health then. But yeah, banning all of it (with priority on getting rid of the real cigarettes that cause others' harm) in public spaces would be my preference.

It actually isn't, if their vape is mis-tuned and producing ash you're inhaling it the same as you would second hand smoke - additionally the health dangers of vape fluid aren't fully understood, a lot of the chemicals that contribute to the carcinogenous natural of tobacco smoking are still present in e-cigs but at generally lower levels. The misinformation that's going around is basically "No one has had time to conduct a long term study and prove it's dangerous so it must be safe!"

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#180

Post by bogidon »

kortilla wrote: post #154
bogidon wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can write to them about your feelings that they should be focusing on different things. - Board.of.Supervisors@sfgov.org - https://sfbos.org/contacts-office-clerk-board Or if you have thoughts about this particular issue, it is now in Mayor Breed's hands: - MayorLondonBreed@sfgov.org - https://sfmayor.org/contact-mayor-london-breed

Do you think they care if you waste your time on that? The board has proven to be incompetent for decades. The government of SF is fundamentally broken.

I think that your comment is counterproductive. Even if the board wouldn't listen today, if more people wrote, more people would feel a sense of engagement with their city, thus more people would do other things, and more things would change. Also, just how much time do you think this would "waste" out of your day? You could do it sitting on the toilet.
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