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macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
171–180 of 450 posts
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#172Not surprising at all. It's become clear that what they've been doing with iOS all along is bootstrapping a new operating system. They started with Unix, not because Unix was optimal for what they wanted to do, but it's what they had and it worked well enough. Copland and Taligent and the rest failed because of Second-System Effect, which Apple was smart enough to avoid. (As RMS wrote in 1983, "Unix is not my ideal s…
They've got enough market clout now that people will port Ruby/Python/Perl to a non-Unix macOS, just as they port them to Microsoft Windows. Ruby on Windows is a nightmare. To be specific, Ruby itself (the core language and core libraries) are pretty good on Windows. Great choice for a scripting language, or whatever else you want to do. But libraries like ActiveRecord, Rails and their myriad dependencies are very ve…
But macOS uses '/' as a directory separator already. They're not going to arbitrarily change trivia like that -- at least, not short of killing the concept of a filesystem altogether. (True, if anyone was going to do that, Apple would, but APFS is brand new. That's not going anywhere.)
Apple isn't changing things just for the sake of change. They're removing 1970's-isms where they hold back the platform. Languages like Ruby/Python/Perl also clean house, from time to time, to remove old cruft. I can't imagine any legacy feature of macOS that Apple would want to deprecate which would make it more difficult to maintain a good port of Ruby/Python/Perl. These are regular general-purpose programming languages now, not just Unix scripting languages.
Yes, Unix has been one of the developer systems of choice for the past couple decades, but it wasn't always so, and it hasn't been the only one. I hear more developers than ever using and enjoying other systems like Windows (Powershell) today. Even Linux today is pretty far from traditional Unix. I just don't see perfect Unix compatibility as a necessary component like it was in 2001.
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you read more into my question than what I meant. I was asking literally about the best way to install it was without a system level ruby. Once you have homebrew, you can install ruby; but what about before that? Download and install ruby from ruby-lang.org, install homebrew and a brewed ruby, then uninstall the one from ruby-lang.org?
Over time I’ve just migrated to using brew for everything. I’m not sure how it differs to macports, etc it’s just the one I always ended up using and it’s now just muscle memory :)
It differs quite a bit in its core philosophy with regards to how it interacts with the rest of the system and how much customizability it allows.
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
What newbie will start with Python 2.7 at this point in time? Most books and tutorials are updated for Python 3. The default Python 2.7 interpreter from macOS is useless for newbies, it does more harm than good by confusing them.
Apple could solve this problem by including python3 with macOS...
Apple could solve this problems by including homebrew with macOS...
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#175Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#176Not a big deal. Anyone doing serious development at scale would mirror production anyways (12factors principle). Plus, who uses Apple's obsolete junk anyhow? For a very long time, homebrew and macports has solved Apple macOS not rolling releasing terminal-based packages. Teapot tempest.
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#177Not surprising at all. It's become clear that what they've been doing with iOS all along is bootstrapping a new operating system. They started with Unix, not because Unix was optimal for what they wanted to do, but it's what they had and it worked well enough. Copland and Taligent and the rest failed because of Second-System Effect, which Apple was smart enough to avoid. (As RMS wrote in 1983, "Unix is not my ideal s…
I think you’re overthinking this. The vast majority of Ruby/Python programmers have been installing their own copies themselves, because Apple was pretty slow in updating them (Ruby is usually a few minor releases behind, Python is still 2.7 IIRC). People will just keep doing that, and nothing will change. They may or may not be moving off Unix, but this isn’t evidence of that.
As a counter-anecdote, the built in Ruby interpreter in Mac OS X Tiger was the way I learned to program and how I got interested in programming. I don't think a bare Ruby interpreter is the best way to get into programming, but Apple hasn't been great at encouraging programming among kids. As a kid, its development tools were totally baffling, where Ruby was much easier to understand.
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
They've got enough market clout now that people will port Ruby/Python/Perl to a non-Unix macOS, just as they port them to Microsoft Windows. Ruby on Windows is a nightmare. To be specific, Ruby itself (the core language and core libraries) are pretty good on Windows. Great choice for a scripting language, or whatever else you want to do. But libraries like ActiveRecord, Rails and their myriad dependencies are very ve…
But macOS uses '/' as a directory separator already. They're not going to arbitrarily change trivia like that -- at least, not short of killing the concept of a filesystem altogether. (True, if anyone was going to do that, Apple would, but APFS is brand new. That's not going anywhere.) Apple isn't changing things just for the sake of change. They're removing 1970's-isms where they hold back the platform. Languages li…
> macOS uses '/' as a directory separator already
Depends on what level of the UI you're dealing with.
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think apple fundamentally does not understand containers. All the interesting container stuff is on other platforms. It might be out of fear, maybe because apple doesn't want macos to be virtualized. It would be really nice to have say the current xcode in one container and a dev xcode in another. It would be nice to farm work out to a lot of machines. or a dockerfile like: FROM macos:10.14 RUN installer xcode... R…
> I think apple fundamentally does not understand containers. Given that Apple is (or at least was) one of the biggest users of Mesos in the world and have invited me to interview specifically on the back of the operationalization of containers, I'm guessing that the staggeringly bright programmers they've got probably understand containers. Just a little hunch, you know?
The devops guys need to spread the love to the OS group and ship it with the OS.
Maybe it's another "you're not the target market" kind of thing.
The point I'm getting at is that folks on other platforms have lots and lots of options and apple doesn't provide any.
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#180It's interesting to me that this is happening in the same month that Microsoft made installing modern Python as easy as typing Python and then clicking "install". One more piece of evidence that Microsoft cares about developers more than Apple does.
Well, python 2.7.5 isn’t ‘modern’ python... AFAIK :-)
Not sure what that version number has to do with anything...? The Microsoft package is 3.7
Edit: 3.7.3, specifically.