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Stripe Chargeback Protection

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Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#171

Post by kweks »

eeke wrote: post #33
Liron wrote: post #20

Any plans to offer this without requiring using Checkout specifically? We use Stripe Elements because it enables a more native seamless payment collection UX.

(PM on Chargeback Protection here.) We are rolling out with our new Checkout first because it allows us to tweak the checkout flow and e.g. send a payment which we’re on the fence about to 3D Secure (3DS) but let obviously good payments go through without 3DS. We are also exploring ways to expand Chargeback Protection to other integration options!

Hi Eeke. A few years back, we lost a merchant account with stripe due to an unfortunate combination: no chargeback insurance enabled, high average transaction value (~600EU) and low monthly volume (we were starting up).

Got one charge back for 800EU that blew us out of the water. Would there be a mechanism to re-apply, with CB protection enabled ?

We struggled to have this discussion with a Real Person at Stripe to discuss this .. would you have any leads ?

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#172

Post by Glyptodon »

Spooky23 wrote: post #51
jasonkester wrote: post #10

But this isn't the product I want. I don't want to ever fight chargebacks. Because my policy is to never take money from people who don't want to give it to me. I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards. One of my businesses targets consumers, who have this amazing ability to "forget to cancel" or to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason…

Keep in mind that making it easy to terminate subscriptions eliminates most of those chargebacks. It’s one of the reasons that I use Apple whenever possible to handle recurring subscriptions. It takes about 10m to file a dispute with American Express. If figuring out how to cancel a subscription takes longer, I’m cutting my losses at 10m and heading to Amex.com. Perhaps industry standards around subscription manageme…

One of the reasons I left my first job out of college is that management wanted the cancel subscription button on our website replaced with a phone number.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#173

Post by gnopgnip »

judge2020 wrote: post #68
kmfrk wrote: post #59

It'd be great to see Stripe adopted by donation platforms for livestreaming like Streamlabs and StreamElements, chargebacks remain an awful abuse vector there.

Didn't Paypal add a TOS clause (or something along those lines) that prevented donations from being valid for chargeback?

The chargeback originates with your bank, not with Paypal.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#174

Post by Silhouette »

Spooky23 wrote: post #51
jasonkester wrote: post #10

But this isn't the product I want. I don't want to ever fight chargebacks. Because my policy is to never take money from people who don't want to give it to me. I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards. One of my businesses targets consumers, who have this amazing ability to "forget to cancel" or to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason…

Keep in mind that making it easy to terminate subscriptions eliminates most of those chargebacks. It’s one of the reasons that I use Apple whenever possible to handle recurring subscriptions. It takes about 10m to file a dispute with American Express. If figuring out how to cancel a subscription takes longer, I’m cutting my losses at 10m and heading to Amex.com. Perhaps industry standards around subscription manageme…

The other side of this is that there are some customers who can't manage to cancel a subscription even when they literally just have to log in, click/tap to go to whatever page handles their personal details, and then push a prominent button to cancel and maybe a second confirmation one to prevent misclicks. The entire process can take less than 10s, yet you'll still get people who email you claiming they can't find it and have been looking forever and now they'd like a refund for their last six months of payments please. Remarkably, although they have trying to cancel for months and have looked everywhere, some of these people have no entry in your logs showing them visiting any of the personal settings pages on your system, nor is there any record of any previous attempt to contact you via any of the five different methods you advertise prominently for customer support...

Now, we're generally fairly relaxed about subscriptions. We very much take the view that it's not worth quibbling over the odd month's payment and we'd rather offer good customer service and build a good reputation. For example, maybe someone seems to have made an honest mistake but we believe they really did intend to cancel and they haven't used our services since, and in that sort of situation we tend to just refund them anyway if they ask.

However, cancelling a payment authority or charging a payment back retrospectively is not a substitute for cancelling a legal agreement, and in some cases it also hurts us. If someone deliberately messes us around like that, we are much less sympathetic, and we certainly consider whether to pursue them through legal means to recover what they owed us and any other damages and costs.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#175

Post by ripberge »

nickjj wrote: post #156

How did you arrive at 0.4%? That seems like a lot to pay for insurance. If they take 2.9% normally, 0.4% is about 14% extra in fees for every transaction you make, but disputes on a legitimate product are probably 1 in 5,000 (and Stripe will charge you a $15 flat fee if you lose the dispute which you will if it was related due to credit card fraud). If you sell 5,000 products at $50 that's $250,000 in revenue. Stripe…

Most disputes have nothing to do with the quality of your product, they're because it's a card number has been stolen and being used illegally and the merchant has no way of knowing this. You're not just out the $15, if you've delivered given the customer merchandise, you'll have to absorb that loss. Most times you won't know a charge has been disputed for around 30 days, so your merchandise is very likely to be gone. The $15 is nothing for many businesses...

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#176

Post by edwinwee »

kweks wrote: post #171
eeke wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(PM on Chargeback Protection here.) We are rolling out with our new Checkout first because it allows us to tweak the checkout flow and e.g. send a payment which we’re on the fence about to 3D Secure (3DS) but let obviously good payments go through without 3DS. We are also exploring ways to expand Chargeback Protection to other integration options!

Hi Eeke. A few years back, we lost a merchant account with stripe due to an unfortunate combination: no chargeback insurance enabled, high average transaction value (~600EU) and low monthly volume (we were starting up). Got one charge back for 800EU that blew us out of the water. Would there be a mechanism to re-apply, with CB protection enabled ? We struggled to have this discussion with a Real Person at Stripe to d…

Hrm, I'm sorry for that struggle. I'd like to look into this—could you email me directly at edwin@stripe.com and I can review what happened (and see if we can help you get set up again)?

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#177

Post by unreal37 »

jliptzin wrote: post #135
xpose2000 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, .4% fee for $10,000 in sales amounts to $40. And losing one chargeback dispute costs you $15, plus time and effort to fill it in and submit it. Not to sound cynical, but odds are you will probably lose it anyways because the customer didn't feel like paying anymore. Am I missing something? The chargeback protection fee doesn't sound terrible

Yes I do lose most disputes regardless of what the situation is, and I did forget about the $15 fee. I guess it really depends on the type of business, will probably make sense for some, but as a consumer I do see a lot of small businesses out there that should be looking first at how to get their chargeback rate low enough that they don’t need something like this in the first place.

And as a poster above says, he'd sign up for this for "revenue certainty".

Would you rather make $10,000-$20,000, or make $17,000? For some, they'd take the sure $17K over the possibility of making less and losing money after cost of goods sold are taken into account.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#178

Post by unreal37 »

burnte wrote: post #111
czzarr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0.4% is an extremely steep price for a company like mine doing over $2.5m in annual turnover (saas) which has a very low fraud rate. I actually think currently we pay less than that by doing nothing (meaning letting Paypal handle it, and losing every case). However I'd gladly pay a few thousands per year for it, or be able to pay it on selected transactions (only US for instance).

Then this offering isn't cost effective for you and you can ignore it. I'm not sure I understand why this thread is full of people complaining it doesn't solve a problem this solution isn't targeting, or, like you, saying this costs more than simply accepting your low chargeback rate. When I rent a car, I decline the offer for me being able to return the car without gas because for me, it's trivial and cheaper for me…

And I'm the opposite. I return the car empty every time, because the cost of "finding a gas station" when you're in a hurry to catch a flight isn't worth the extra $X they charge for the service to fill it. Choices are great!

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#179

Post by chrischen »

burnte wrote: post #111
czzarr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0.4% is an extremely steep price for a company like mine doing over $2.5m in annual turnover (saas) which has a very low fraud rate. I actually think currently we pay less than that by doing nothing (meaning letting Paypal handle it, and losing every case). However I'd gladly pay a few thousands per year for it, or be able to pay it on selected transactions (only US for instance).

Then this offering isn't cost effective for you and you can ignore it. I'm not sure I understand why this thread is full of people complaining it doesn't solve a problem this solution isn't targeting, or, like you, saying this costs more than simply accepting your low chargeback rate. When I rent a car, I decline the offer for me being able to return the car without gas because for me, it's trivial and cheaper for me…

It’s called product feedback. You are also complaining about the poster’s complaining, which is essentially the same thing.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#180

Post by [deleted] »

wbl wrote: post #109
Spooky23 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that making it easy to terminate subscriptions eliminates most of those chargebacks. It’s one of the reasons that I use Apple whenever possible to handle recurring subscriptions. It takes about 10m to file a dispute with American Express. If figuring out how to cancel a subscription takes longer, I’m cutting my losses at 10m and heading to Amex.com. Perhaps industry standards around subscription manageme…

There is no legitimate retention management. If I want to cancel I've made clear what I want to do. Making it take longer then a few minutes is a waste of all our time.

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