Apple Plans End of iTunes • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#171

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

asveikau wrote: post #166

klodolph wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> files on disk in any way the customer wants, but add a db on the side to do things like play counts and tags Literally iTunes does this, by default, without changing its configuration.

When you open a file, it copies it, renaming it in the process. You can manage the files yourself and point it at that, but the default, eg. if you choose to open a file from any old place, is to copy into its own naming and organization scheme.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1845699

That is not the default when you install iTunes it asks you whether you want it to “manage your music”. This is not a new behavior - note the date on the above post.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#172

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

asveikau wrote: post #165

scarface74 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What magical thing do you think iTunes is doing besides managing playlists and syncing?

When you hand it a file, it copies it according to its naming scheme and hierarchy.

As I posted above - only if you tell it to when you install iTunes.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1845699

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#173

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

altmind wrote: post #104

scarface74 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you don’t. With iTunes you could have smart playlists like “create a list of all of the songs I haven’t played in X days”. Normal people didn’t want to tag songs and use the filesystem. Do I really need to bring up the “No Wireless. Less Space than a Nomad. Lame.” Meme and how geeks didn’t get the iPod? https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-i...

“create a list of all of the songs I haven’t played in X days” - this can easily be done in winamp. they got full query language that can be saved as a playlist. i even think they got this as one of pre-sets.

Yes because giving users “a full query language” is appropriate for the masses....

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#174

Post by saurik » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

macintux wrote: post #120

saurik wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do I really need to bring up the “No Wireless. Less Space than a Nomad. Lame.” Meme and how geeks didn’t get the iPod? People love to bring this up... but that product (pretty much) did fail, in no small part because it had less space than a Nomad. The iPod wasn't successful until a couple revisions later and after the introduction of iTunes (which led to an end-to-end rethink of how you loaded music on these devic…

As pointed out, iTunes predates the iPod. The major things that changed after the iPod was released: adding online music sales, switching from FireWire to USB for all the people stuck with the slower Windows hardware interface, and iTunes for Windows. None of those changed the core iPod design; I don’t think the first one failed in any meaningful way.

Sorry: I specifically meant "the iTunes Music Store", which was where I was going with "end-to-end rethink". iTunes existed as a music player, but it wasn't until they provided a way to buy songs using it as part of a cohesive service that it was game changing for the industry, and that wasn't until the third-generation iPod came out.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#175

Post by saurik » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

the_jeremy wrote: post #89

saurik wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do I really need to bring up the “No Wireless. Less Space than a Nomad. Lame.” Meme and how geeks didn’t get the iPod? People love to bring this up... but that product (pretty much) did fail, in no small part because it had less space than a Nomad. The iPod wasn't successful until a couple revisions later and after the introduction of iTunes (which led to an end-to-end rethink of how you loaded music on these devic…

iTunes was already out when the iPod was announced.

Sorry: I specifically meant "the iTunes Music Store", which was where I was going with "end-to-end rethink". iTunes existed as a music player, but it wasn't until they provided a way to buy songs using it as part of a cohesive service that it was game changing for the industry, and that wasn't until the third-generation iPod came out.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#176

Post by saurik » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 6:37 PM UTC

corobo wrote: post #87

saurik wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do I really need to bring up the “No Wireless. Less Space than a Nomad. Lame.” Meme and how geeks didn’t get the iPod? People love to bring this up... but that product (pretty much) did fail, in no small part because it had less space than a Nomad. The iPod wasn't successful until a couple revisions later and after the introduction of iTunes (which led to an end-to-end rethink of how you loaded music on these devic…

On the other hand I know what an iPod is, only ever heard of a Nomad through the quoted quote There was a winner

Yes... a _company_ (Apple) won under a cohesive brand (iPod), but _that product which was being reviewed at the time_ did not. Nothing about what happened with later products retroactively changes whether the physical product that people had in their hands was good or not, or whether their review _of that specific product_ was fair.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#177

Post by stephenr » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

JakeTheAndroid wrote: post #127

biql wrote: post #57

> The company is launching a trio of new apps for the Mac – Music, TV, and Podcasts – to replace iTunes. Nice. It's always better to have multiple programs each dedicated to a specific task than one that tries to be everything.

This confuses me. Isn't this essentially how it already works? Like QuickTime is how you play video files and you can organize videos in QT just like you can do so with music in iTunes. I know both apps are kind of tied together, but it seems like outside of Podcasts they already have two apps doing two different things. Does this also mean they are killing QuickTime?

QuickTime has no library, it just plays files.

iTunes is a library for music, tv shows, movies, podcasts, audiobooks, heck even home movies.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#178

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 7:52 PM UTC

saurik wrote: post #176

corobo wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand I know what an iPod is, only ever heard of a Nomad through the quoted quote There was a winner

Yes... a _company_ (Apple) won under a cohesive brand (iPod), but _that product which was being reviewed at the time_ did not. Nothing about what happened with later products retroactively changes whether the physical product that people had in their hands was good or not, or whether their review _of that specific product_ was fair.

The product at the time had iPod+iTunes+smaller form factor+faster charging+interface.

What part changed during the iPod era.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#179

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

saurik wrote: post #174

macintux wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As pointed out, iTunes predates the iPod. The major things that changed after the iPod was released: adding online music sales, switching from FireWire to USB for all the people stuck with the slower Windows hardware interface, and iTunes for Windows. None of those changed the core iPod design; I don’t think the first one failed in any meaningful way.

Sorry: I specifically meant "the iTunes Music Store", which was where I was going with "end-to-end rethink". iTunes existed as a music player, but it wasn't until they provided a way to buy songs using it as part of a cohesive service that it was game changing for the industry, and that wasn't until the third-generation iPod came out.

According to Steve Jobs “Thoughts on Music” essay posted in 2007, only 3% of music on the typical iPod was bought on iTunes. This was original posted on Apple’s home page. So it wasn’t the music store that made that much difference.

https://macdailynews.com/2007/02/06/apple_ceo_steve_jobs_pos...

Through the end of 2006, customers purchased a total of 90 million iPods and 2 billion songs from the iTunes store. On average, that’s 22 songs purchased from the iTunes store for each iPod ever sold.

Today’s most popular iPod holds 1000 songs, and research tells us that the average iPod is nearly full. This means that only 22 out of 1000 songs, or under 3% of the music on the average iPod, is purchased from the iTunes store and protected with a DRM.

Re: Apple Plans End of iTunes

#180

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Jun 01, 2019, 8:13 PM UTC

saurik wrote: post #175

the_jeremy wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iTunes was already out when the iPod was announced.

Sorry: I specifically meant "the iTunes Music Store", which was where I was going with "end-to-end rethink". iTunes existed as a music player, but it wasn't until they provided a way to buy songs using it as part of a cohesive service that it was game changing for the industry, and that wasn't until the third-generation iPod came out.

And still only 3% of Music on the iPod was bought from the music store according to Steve Jobs himself - 4 years after the store came online. That didn’t make much of a difference.

https://macdailynews.com/2007/02/06/apple_ceo_steve_jobs_pos...