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SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

nytimes.com

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Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#171

Post by paulddraper »

perfmode wrote: post #144
rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

Can you make an argument why this would be considered about “outcome” for the purpose of conversation?

They are using neighborhood income level and status to adjust the outcome of the SAT.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#172

Post by rexpop »

rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

Getting into college is not an outcome—it's an opportunity.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#173

Post by LanceH »

gugagore wrote: post #162
rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

I might be missing the point, but from a quick glance at the article, it's about geographic location, and not race. Is there some second-order effect?

In the zero sum game of admissions, boosting someone else for their poor location/school impacts those who sacrificed to get score better without the boost.

A poor asian community that sends their kids to after school schools and does very well as a whole will suddenly fight themselves without the boost that others at that economic level might have.

All theoretical at this point I guess. I would prefer to let this play out a little bit more rather than race based quotas/scholarships which more often than not seem to go to kids with the same good backgrounds who just happen to be minorities.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#174

Post by jdsully »

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #165
rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

>I’m getting pushed further and further to the right. Maybe not, it feels like to me that the Overton window[0] has been sliding left. My views on freedom of speech made me a 'leftist commie' when I used them to defend South Park and Eminem now most often I'm accused being 'alt-right' by those who disagree with those same views. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

A one dimensional left/right view doesn't really explain our current politics very well. Factions in both parties have strong reasons to be against freedom of speech.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#175

Post by rexpop »

crazy1van wrote: post #167
perfmode wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you make an argument why this would be considered about “outcome” for the purpose of conversation?

They are imperfect phrases, but generally an equality of opportunity in this case refers to no matter what you look like, what your parents do, how much money you have, if you get a SAT score and GPA above a threshold, you get accepted into the school. Whereas equality of outcome would focus more on who gets in even if it means treating people differently based on what they look look, how much money they have, where…

SAT scores and GPA are strongly affected by how much money you have.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#176

Post by PorterDuff »

president wrote: post #25
CryoLogic wrote: post #7

Soon we will have SAT advisers suggesting how to game the "adversity score" as well. - Get a summer job "because your family needed money" - Move out of your parents house for a summer "bad living conditions" - Adopt some non-binary gender temporarily "bullied for identifying as x" - CEO dad drops salary to $20k for a year and instead gets stock vesting equivalent "poor family" etc. etc.

I can't wait to launch my Adversity Summer Camp startup

That's brilliant.

There'll be a boom market for Adversity Coaches.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#177

Post by DtnB »

jedberg wrote: post #21
CryoLogic wrote: post #7

Soon we will have SAT advisers suggesting how to game the "adversity score" as well. - Get a summer job "because your family needed money" - Move out of your parents house for a summer "bad living conditions" - Adopt some non-binary gender temporarily "bullied for identifying as x" - CEO dad drops salary to $20k for a year and instead gets stock vesting equivalent "poor family" etc. etc.

> CEO dad drops salary to $20k for a year and instead gets stock vesting equivalent "poor family" Colleges are pretty wise to this trick. You aren't the first to think of it. Relatedly is legally emancipating a child so they have "no parental support" and get a bunch of grants. That doesn't work either. I suspect the colleges would get good as sussing out all those other tricks too.

its not so much 'sussing out tricks' as a blanket ban on anything that can be abused. My parents made roughly 100k when I was going to school but they were terrible with money and have a lot of children. The 'expected contribution' was actually quite high but I never received anything from my parents at all. Thus, I have much in the way of student loans.

Not to take away from your point but the colleges having to work against these sort of tricks has a lot of unintended consequences.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#178

Post by jachee »

rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

Those with less privilege are getting a smidge closer to an even starting point, and your idea is to get more conservative?

What if your family had the choice to move wherever without sacrificing opportunity?

This isn't about penalizing anyone. It's about offering a modicum of equality in a privilege-drowned world.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#179

Post by educationdata »

rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

One thing I have to say about this SAT thing is that, there are lots lots of Asians working in SAT as statisticians, psychometricians, and analysts. There must be lots of Asians working on the project related to the 'Adversity Score', unless they intentionally exclude Asians from this project.

But we've never heard anything about internal disagreement or resistant against this stuff. This fact tells something.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#180

Post by bruceb »

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #165
rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

>I’m getting pushed further and further to the right. Maybe not, it feels like to me that the Overton window[0] has been sliding left. My views on freedom of speech made me a 'leftist commie' when I used them to defend South Park and Eminem now most often I'm accused being 'alt-right' by those who disagree with those same views. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

Unfortunately this is true. Some on the left have become 1980s republicans when it comes to free speech, Russia, and the goodness of big business.
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