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Ask YC: Why the degree?

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Re: Ask YC: Why the degree?

#171

Post by elai »

gnaritas wrote: post #82
yummyfajitas wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed completely. But how do you get more information cheaply? Remember, all you know is P(qualified| resume says autodidactic)= P(qualified | autodidactic) * P(autodidactic | resume says autodidactic) . The second term can easily kill you. Do you trust everything people put on their resume? On the other hand, P(degree | resume says degree) is probably close to 1, since a degree is so easy for an HR person to check.…

In the programming industry, it's not really that hard to filter out bad candidates. You shouldn't waste time talking to any programmer not willing to submit to some simplistic programming test in lieu of a resume. Resumes are crap and have no place in hiring programmers. Code is all that matters, either they can do it or they can't and if they can, they'll accept your challenge. Nothing makes for a better interview…

Dont be the kind of employer that asks for a week long project as a resume. That's just irritating.

Re: Ask YC: Why the degree?

#172

Post by stcredzero »

gnaritas wrote: post #144
stcredzero wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a set of skills and body of experience that applies to working on large bodies of code. In fact, there are different skill sets for working on bodies of bad code and good code.

You'll note I said vastly different, I didn't say there was no difference.

The language syntax may be the same, but programming approaches might be very different. I've seen parts of a Smalltalk program where it was coded like spaghetti copy-paste Fortran, and it's actually hopeless to try and fully understand the semantics and still meet your deadline. But I was able to use a few tricks to prove that certain modifications wouldn't alter other functionality so I could get my work done. In the same program, there was well factored code with a nice object model, where it would behoove you to understand the part you're working on in a more conventional way.

On reflection, I think you may be right that good code is good code. Size of the system matters most when the code is bad.

Re: Ask YC: Why the degree?

#173

Post by erdos2 »

wehriam wrote: post #169
modoc wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the point is that having heard of and bothered to read one of her books, whether you liked or agreed with it or not, probably implies various things about you. A) You socialize(d) with people who read things that aren't sold in the grocery store. B) You not only know how to read, but most likely voluntarily read a 700+ page book in your spare time in order to learn/see what it was about/etc... C) If you can…

Very few people are hiring based on an understanding of objectivism. Data structures and algorithms on the other hand...

Exactly.

Re: Ask YC: Why the degree?

#174

Post by xlnt »

erdos2 wrote: post #168
xlnt wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ayn Rand seems to be (significantly) more popular here than in the general population, judging from a dozen or so times I've seen her come up in comment threads. Isn't that more relevant than your personal, negative opinion of her philosophy? So, out of curiosity, do these "results in evolutionary game theory" have a source?

"Isn't that more relevant than your personal, negative opinion of her philosophy?" No, because it's not only a personal opinion, but a statement that Rand's philosophy of rational self interest is logically invalid ('rational' does not imply 'self interest'; the basis on the reflexivity of identity could fairly be called desperate) and scientifically incorrect. Rand's philosophy is incompatible with findings of recip…

As you must be aware, many smart people disagree with you about Rand, and can back it up with something better than a youtube video. And anyway, you said her philosophy contains certain flaws. That doesn't imply it's not valuable and useful overall, so even if I concede your points, it's not very important. The reasons I like Rand have nothing to do with "axiom of reflexivity of identity" or that other stuff you said.

edit: no online sources? I don't normally pay $35+ because a hostile, anonymous internet commenter said something would refute someone I respect but didn't want to explain the ideas himself.

Re: Ask YC: Why the degree?

#175

Post by elai »

LPTS wrote: post #55
maxklein wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand me. I do not learn exactly enough to get things done. That would be impossible. If I am asked to program a web app in PHP, I would study PHP, Databases, Web server configurations, and have enough knowledge to develop a web app. I would not start by studying design patterns, software modelling techniques and abstract functional programming. That's the difference between self learning and stru…

(I don't mean to sound harsh on you, you sound smart and what I wrote has the wrong tone.) "most of the time people learn things specific to the topic they are interested in." Your structure is wrong. It's not most of the time all people. It's most of the people all the time. An autodidactic person (admittedly rare and an outlier) will have already studied design patterns or whatever, because they read obsessively an…

Whats so freaky about teaching yourself?! Learning college level material isn't some mystical magical thing that you need the professor who holds the keys to teach you! Unless they are the only repository of information and no textbook exists to learn the material. Once you start understanding the vocab (and stop wasting your time by not reading the best books for your topic) it's just like anything else. Hopefully you can find a professor/writer who isn't horrible at writing and learned less is more. If not, you'll figure it out.

Re: Ask YC: Why the degree?

#176

Post by elai »

vaksel wrote: post #88
jamesbritt wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Why? Because a person can write anything they want on their resume and you'll never know that they are BSing" Unless you pick up the phone and make a few calls. There are many things that are trivial to check, such as whether someone actually attended a given school or worked at a given company. Certainly people can and do BS on their resume and get away with it, but its not because resumes are inherently unverifia…

how do you know the phone # someone gives you is their ex-boss' phone # and not their buddy's

By looking the company up in the phone book/internet and calling from there. There might be some cases where endless bureaucracy might get in your way, but in most, it wont.

Re: Ask YC: Why the degree?

#177

Post by modoc »

wehriam wrote: post #169
modoc wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the point is that having heard of and bothered to read one of her books, whether you liked or agreed with it or not, probably implies various things about you. A) You socialize(d) with people who read things that aren't sold in the grocery store. B) You not only know how to read, but most likely voluntarily read a 700+ page book in your spare time in order to learn/see what it was about/etc... C) If you can…

Very few people are hiring based on an understanding of objectivism. Data structures and algorithms on the other hand...

I'd rather work with a smart, well read person who likes to think than someone who hasn't read much.

Sure asking about Ayn Rand isn't really an intelligence test, but it's not a bad start. Smart people can learn about data structures and algorithms. Slow people who've managed to get a CS degree from some random college may have learned enough to pass, but there's no demonstration of smarts there.

I'm hiring based on people being smart, self-motivated, willing to learn, willing to think, and people I can hold a conversation with. Teaching someone like that how data structures work is a lot easier than teaching a degree holder how to be someone I want to work with and someone I can trust to be on the ball as new technologies come out.

Re: Ask YC: Why the degree?

#178

Post by erdos2 »

xlnt wrote: post #174
erdos2 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Isn't that more relevant than your personal, negative opinion of her philosophy?" No, because it's not only a personal opinion, but a statement that Rand's philosophy of rational self interest is logically invalid ('rational' does not imply 'self interest'; the basis on the reflexivity of identity could fairly be called desperate) and scientifically incorrect. Rand's philosophy is incompatible with findings of recip…

As you must be aware, many smart people disagree with you about Rand, and can back it up with something better than a youtube video. And anyway, you said her philosophy contains certain flaws. That doesn't imply it's not valuable and useful overall, so even if I concede your points, it's not very important. The reasons I like Rand have nothing to do with "axiom of reflexivity of identity" or that other stuff you said…

You asked for a source: I provided one. A request for an explanation is something else. I'll give you another source instead: http://www2.owen.vanderbilt.edu/Mike.Shor/courses/GTheory/do...

As for $35, it pains me to mention libraries...it was a source, with a link so that you could see something about the book.

I can't say I know of a single public intellectual or professional philosopher who takes Rand seriously. I do know of a well-regarded mathematical logician who does, but this is an aberration.

Re: Ask YC: Why the degree?

#179

Post by mojonixon »

A degree signifies that someone knows what they don't know. I am quite competent in many technical areas, but my formal education pushed me into areas where I'm not comfortable and would have avoided if it was up to me.

Re: Ask YC: Why the degree?

#180

Post by DougBTX »

hhm wrote: post #127
mark-t wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That actually happens a fair amount with non-native speakers, since our uncommon words are sometimes very similar to their common words. For example, an italian recently called me ascetic, and I had to look it up.

"Autodidacta" is the most common way to say "self-taught" in Spanish.

I love how English is quite happy to absorb new words, even if the English speakers only know a subset!

Back in school, we were warned about "faux amis", words which sound like they'd be right to an English speaker, but very much out of place to a native French speaker. I think in English we'd just accept any and all alternative meanings and let context sort it out, who's up for some creative reading?

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