Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach • Hacker News Board

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#171

Post by miemo » Thu, May 02, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #147

effie wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I don't think you can really object that "too much" money is being spent." If you are UK taxpayer, you can. > "It's up to the relevant authorities to figure out when enough is enough, financially speaking." It is, but when they spend more than seems appropriate for the offense, then questions and doubts about the incentives pop up.

Skipping bail is a serious offense. The criminal justice system would collapse if people were routinely able to skip bail without consequences. This point is especially pertinent when the person who skips bail is in the public eye and everyone can see him getting away with it. As a UK taxpayer myself, I'm happy to see the rule of law eventually prevail in this instance. It strikes me as stingy and short-sighted to va…

if a country charges a man with sleeping with another man, one which carries a potential death sentence, and after bail he claims asylum in the west, would you consider his skipping bail a perversion of justice?

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#172

Post by foldr » Thu, May 02, 2019, 3:30 PM UTC

miemo wrote: post #171

foldr wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skipping bail is a serious offense. The criminal justice system would collapse if people were routinely able to skip bail without consequences. This point is especially pertinent when the person who skips bail is in the public eye and everyone can see him getting away with it. As a UK taxpayer myself, I'm happy to see the rule of law eventually prevail in this instance. It strikes me as stingy and short-sighted to va…

if a country charges a man with sleeping with another man, one which carries a potential death sentence, and after bail he claims asylum in the west, would you consider his skipping bail a perversion of justice?

It's not a possible scenario, since there are at least two reasons why a European Arrest Warrant couldn't be issued in those circumstances.

(i) An EAW can only be issued for something that's a crime in the country that issues it.

(ii) European countries can't extradite people who would face the death penalty on conviction.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#173

Post by kdtsh » Fri, May 03, 2019, 8:17 AM UTC

NoblePublius wrote: post #16

It’s not civil disobedience without accepting the consequences of one’s actions.

Civil disobedience doesn’t necessarily require rolling over when a power you’re standing against assets itself. He can maintain his legal innocence and moral standing if he wants to.

I’m sure he is fully aware that his actions have put his life in danger, but I’m also sure he doesn’t believe he should accept this fact without fighting.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#174

Post by NoblePublius » Fri, May 03, 2019, 2:07 PM UTC

kdtsh wrote: post #173

NoblePublius wrote: post #16

It’s not civil disobedience without accepting the consequences of one’s actions.

Civil disobedience doesn’t necessarily require rolling over when a power you’re standing against assets itself. He can maintain his legal innocence and moral standing if he wants to. I’m sure he is fully aware that his actions have put his life in danger, but I’m also sure he doesn’t believe he should accept this fact without fighting.

It literally requires that. It’s what the “civil” part of the term means. Otherwise it’s just disobedience. Go read Letter From An Alabama Jail.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#175

Post by Tycho » Fri, May 03, 2019, 10:13 PM UTC

u10 wrote: post #137

Tycho wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes what they did is totally 'normal' if you ignore the elephants in the room that Assange had a legitimate claim to asylum from US persecution (and that they refused to promise no extradition) and that the case was ridiculous in the first place. He stayed in Sweden for five weeks after the event and they let him leave after he failed to gain a work permit. Here's some of the ridiculous things: * the women admit to s…

> the women admit to sleeping with him consensually before and after the alleged offenses, also housing him in their homes and hanging out socially It follows that using your logic, a husband cannot rape his wife, no matter the circumstances, which is not only sexist but incredibly stupid logic >the accusations were made after the alleged victims consulted with each other at the police station Why does that matter? >…

> It follows that using your logic, a husband cannot rape his wife, no matter the circumstances, which is not only sexist but incredibly stupid logic

That does not follow, but it does mean that in a case of one persons word against another, the subsequent behaviour of the accuser can make their accusation less or more believable.

>>the accusations were made after the alleged victims consulted with each other at the police station >Why does that matter?

Because when two people independently accuse someone of a something, it lends credibility. But if the two people in fact colluded in stating the accusation, they are not independent, and are less credible.

> Interpol is not just for terrorists

Sweden currently has 17 Interpol “red notices” and all of them are for murder and/or organised crime. I do not see any cases along similar lines to Assange, suggesting that the Swedish authorities were giving this case special treatment.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#176

Post by Tycho » Fri, May 03, 2019, 11:30 PM UTC

ChrisSD wrote: post #152

u10 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the women admit to sleeping with him consensually before and after the alleged offenses, also housing him in their homes and hanging out socially It follows that using your logic, a husband cannot rape his wife, no matter the circumstances, which is not only sexist but incredibly stupid logic >the accusations were made after the alleged victims consulted with each other at the police station Why does that matter? >…

Indeed, there was no mystery involved in the reopening of the case. After the preliminary investigation was initially dropped on 25 August 2010, a lawyer representing one of the alleged victims requested a review of the prosecutor's decision. On 1 September 2010 (a week later) it was decided that the investigation should be resumed.

It may interest you to know that this lawyer was a former government minister and then a named partner at Bodström & Borgström, the other partner being both the justice minister who once presided over the illegal rendition of two terrorist suspects from Sweden to Egypt where they were tortured for the CIA, and also a member of the organisation which invited Assange to Sweden for a talk (one of the women was also part of this org). So I’d say it’s at least a little mysterious.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#177

Post by kdtsh » Sat, May 04, 2019, 9:20 AM UTC

NoblePublius wrote: post #174

kdtsh wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civil disobedience doesn’t necessarily require rolling over when a power you’re standing against assets itself. He can maintain his legal innocence and moral standing if he wants to. I’m sure he is fully aware that his actions have put his life in danger, but I’m also sure he doesn’t believe he should accept this fact without fighting.

It literally requires that. It’s what the “civil” part of the term means. Otherwise it’s just disobedience. Go read Letter From An Alabama Jail.

It’s very debatable that that’s what the ‘civil’ means. Frankly, the term is ambiguous, and really that ambiguity seems to be intentional - it can mean many different things to many different people. I haven’t read Letter From An Alabama Jail, but a person’s civil disobedience doesn’t stop being civil disobedience because they don’t follow MLK’s formula.

Re: Julian Assange: Wikileaks co-founder jailed over bail breach

#178

Post by fit2rule » Tue, May 14, 2019, 7:02 PM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #50

fit2rule wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corollary: As long as he is in a maximum security prison controlled by imperial powers, the public will not be aware of the brainwashing/programming/coercion he is going to be subjected to .. Will we see the same Assange in 50 weeks? This is more than enough time for the masters of MK ULTRA to subvert his will and turn him into a puppet.

I'm trying to decide if this line of thinking is scary or wondrous.

Well, it seems he is now subject to re-programming at the hands of the military-industrial-pharmaceutical complex:

https://www.transcend.org/tms/2019/05/assange-and-beyond-pra...

.. sorry to say, my prediction came true.

“[Julian Assange] is presently under close observation in prison hospital because he has suffered ‘severe transient psychotic episodes.’ My source(s) indicate these episodes occurred after two sessions of coercive interrogation at the hands of UK and US officials. The source(s) stated the HUMINT interrogators used psychotropic drugs in the course of the sessions.”